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The Stuff of Legends: The Wolf Pack of Angmar

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Monday, February 8, 2021

The Stuff of Legends: The Army of Gothmog

Good morning gamers,

So far in this series, we've covered two Legendary Legions from Gondor at War (the Men of the West and the Grey Company) and both Legendary Legions from the Scouring of the Shire (the Defenders of the Shire and the Chief's Ruffians). Today we continue our review of Legions from Gondor at War: the Army of Gothmog. If you bought the Battle for Pelennor Fields box set, you're well on your way to collecting this Legion (just pick up a Gothmog model and two Orc heroes and you're all set)! While this might be an easy acquire for new players, how competitive would a Morannon Orc spam (with Troll support) be? And are there things that would be better if they were changed? Let's delve into that discussion and see, shall we?

Part 1: What Do You Need?
Legion Tax: 130-145pts
The only model you NEED is Gothmog, Lieutenant of Sauron (who, fully kitted-out, is only 145 points - not a high tax by any means). Gothmog's stats are, as I discussed in our recent post on Heroic Strike heroes, not great (good for an Orc hero, but not great by any means): he's "only" F5 (a higher Fight Value would mean that Master of Battle would give you a free Heroic Strike against F5 heroes - with F5, there needs to be a friendly Striking hero or a Troll nearby ready to stomp on a F6-or-below hero in order for Gothmog to get a free Strike), he's "only S4" (despite other Orc heroes in this list being S5), he gets to D7 (which is good, I admit, but kinda expected for most heroes), he's got 3A/3W (which is also good - certainly better than any other heroes we're looking at today), and he's got 3M/3W/1F (the Fate isn't very good but on-par with Evil heroes - the Might/Will are on-par with other top heroes, regardless of Good/Evil affiliation). Against warriors, Gothmog is a pretty solid choice - especially if he's astride his warg and on the charge. Against heroes, however, Gothmog's profile leaves something to be desired (especially since he costs almost 150 points). I mean, compare him to almost any Dwarf hero (80-160 points) and you're looking at "about equal" stats or worse stats for more/about-equal cost. Seriously, he's not that great . . .

Army of Gothmog Bonuses
In this Legion, Gothmog becomes a Hero of Legend, which gives him slightly more models in his warband (and is slightly more vulnerable to Heroic Challenges). While you might scoff at the fear of Heroic Challenges, think again for Gothmog: thanks to having Master of Battle, his ability to call free Heroic Moves is huge late-game - and since he's "only" F5/S4 with 3 Attacks and "only" D7/1F with 3 Wounds, it's not THAT big of a risk to fight him. If the person challenging is at least F6, Gothmog will have to call a Strike (probably using his own Might) to potentially have the higher Fight Value - and that Strike will only be free if your opponent calls a Heroic Strike near Gothmog's fight (which he should try not to do with a nearby hero if he's issuing a Challenge). After 3 rounds of Striking, Gothmog will have the lower Fight Value and you've got him on the ropes for sure. Beware those Heroic Challenges, my friend . . .

The Legion bonuses also help Gothmog get better: his Age of Men is Over rule (normally a 3" Hatred bubble to friendly Mordor Orcs against Men) is expanded to 12" (which is pretty big and lethal - if you're fighting against Men). His Time of the Orc Has Come rule (once-per-game 12" reroll all failed To Wound rolls for friendly Mordor Orcs) is increased to battlefield-wide, which is handy as well (no matter what faction you might be facing). Finally, your Mordor Orc heroes can benefit from Gothmog's Stand Fast (which, since Gothmog is C5, is quite helpful - especially since your other heroes are C4 or less). This is awesome and useful . . .  and yet another reason Gothmog doesn't want to be issued a Challenge.

Supporting Gothmog are four named Orc heroes, each with their own job to play. Goroth, Captain of the Morannon is the beater of the group (F5/2A with 3-Might-and-Strike and S5 with a Burly two-handed mace), Zagdush is a flexible fighter against both heroes and warriors (F4/3A with 3-Might-and-Strike and S4 with the ability to get +1 Strength in trade for -1 Defense), Guritz, Master of Reserves is a nice support piece (F4/2A with March/3 Might, S5 with a two-handed pick), and Gothmog's Enforcer who gives free Heroic Moves to Gothmog  (F4/2A with Heroic Defense/1 Might, S4 with no special wounding capabilities).

Note on Gothmog's Enforcer: his ability to spend Will to give Gothmog free Heroic Moves isn't THAT useful when counter-calling Heroic Moves (Master of Battle does a pretty good job of that), but is much more useful when you must call the Heroic Move before your opponent. Since Gothmog is integral to the team's success, including the Enforcer can be useful way to save Gothmog's Might for what really matters. I'll be honest though, I find it difficult to make a place for this guy in any lists I build for this Legion or normal Mordor lists . . .

The list also has access to four generic heroes (excluding siege veterans/captains): Orc Shamans (Fury for the win - you should always have one), Morannon Orc Captains (not sure these guys are worth taking since they're nearly the same cost as the named Orc heroes - could be very useful if equipped with a shield as a Rock hero since NONE of the named heroes have shields), Orc Taskmasters (chances for free Heroic Moves/Marches - you're not calling Heroic Shoots, right?), and Orc Drummers (great for getting those melee Orcs into combat as quickly as possible).

Note on the Orc Drummer: because his drum has the "Mordor Orc" keywords, any Mordor Trolls you bring along won't benefit from the extra speed. They also won't be affected by the "no charging this turn" rules of the War Drum, so that could be handy if you want your Orcs to sprint somewhere and your Troll(s) tie enemy models up. Alternatively, you could pay the same amount of points as you would for the Orc Drummer and instead just get a War Drum on a Mordor Troll (which affects all models in this Legion). Personally, I think the choice is simple, if you have the points for a Troll (I'm also of the opinion that the only reason to buy a Mordor Troll is to take the Drum, but that's a story for another day).

The warrior selections in this list are straight-forward: Mordor Orcs and Morannon Orcs for your grunt infantry (we've lost all of the "bells and whistles" infantry), Mordor Trolls, and both siege engines (War Catapults and Siege Bows). While you've lost all access to F4 infantry, you've got the flexibility to take infantry with heavy armor or lighter armor, spears/shields on everyone, Orc bows if you want some honesty archery (with admittedly bad shoot values), and two-handed weapons on the Orc Warriors if you want some extra killing power (though Morannons do a pretty good job).

Part 2: Why Take This Legion Over "Normal" Allied Forces?

I'll be honest: like the Men of the West LL, I think there's a good reason to just take a normal Mordor list over this army. As nice as the buffs for Gothmog are in this Legion, he's a very vulnerable hero that needs to be protected in the early game from archery/magic so that he's where you need him to be when the fighting starts (and certainly as you transition into the late game). 145 points spent on a hero who is sitting in the rear, waiting to engage just doesn't seem worth it to me. Granted, when I play Mordor, I have a Witch-King that sits at 165 points and likes to hang in the back, but with 15 Will points (and a reroll from the Crown of Morgul), he's hardly wasted hanging in the back (and when he comes in on the charge, that Morgul Blade can make up for a weak offensive profile as a lucky roll is all you need to gut someone).

So let's take a look at the strengths and weaknesses of this list and see if we can find a niche place for it apart from its vanilla cousin.

Weakness #1: Very Limited Cavalry Options
Okay, your only cavalry options are Gothmog and Orc Shamans. I'll be honest - those aren't good cavalry options (and not the kind you can spam). As a result, unless you bring a Drummer or a Mordor Troll with War Drum (or spend 2 Might each turn Marching - IF you can get everyone in range of a single March hero), you're showing up second to the party on scenarios where you need to be somewhere and having to "just take" any archery your opponent has (though Orc bowmen that are spammed CAN make your opponent play your way).

When facing an enemy cavalry charge, your only option is to "just take it" - and with F3 across your warriors, that's going to hurt. Wrapping around and trapping cavalry is a good strategy, but if you move first and your opponent moves second, you could be in for a world of hurt. It's in this situation that heroes like Goroth (who can bludgeon cavalry) and Trolls (who can HURL cavalry) are invaluable - though your opponent is unlikely to charge these units with anything short of their best heroes.

Strength #1: Good Core Warrior Choices
While Mordor has a host of good elite warriors (in my List Building post on Mordor, I highlighted Mordor Uruk-Hai, Morannon Orcs, Black Numenoreans, and Black Guard of Barad-Dur, though you can get great use out of Morgul Stalkers, Orc Trackers, Morgul Knights, lowly Orc Warriors, and of course Warg Riders), your two warrior choices here give you the best all-around Warrior options available to Mordor: Morannon Orcs and Orc Warriors. Orc Warriors are cheap (usually 5-7 points/model with an option for a banner) while Morannon Orcs are more average cost (7-9 points/model with an option for a banner). Omitting the more expensive warrior options does mean you lack a few things (like F4 and decent archers), but you have access to reliable troops in the Morannon Orcs and cheap hordes with the Orc Warriors (who also have bows for honesty). Speaking of which . . .

Weakness #2: Very Limited Archery
Mordor isn't known for its shooting prowess, but you can get lots of free archers via a Great Beast of Gorgoroth (which were brought in Gothmog's army but aren't in this legion . . . more on that in a bit), decent archers who are cheap with a bad combat profile in Orc Trackers, decent archers who are more expensive with a good combat profile in Mordor Uruk-Hai, and flexible skirmish cavalry with Warg Riders. And you can get Orc Warriors with Orc bows, who can support the front-line with spears, but otherwise are some of the worst archers in the game. Of all the archery options available to Mordor, this Legion got the worst archers of the lot. If you really want to shoot, though, maybe you should supplement your crappy Orc archers with . . .

Strength #2: Good Siege Engines
The Mordor War Catapult faired pretty well in our review of "Big Honkin' Things" for the Forces of Evil, though they're not as good in this Legion as they are in Mordor generally (as your Severed Heads shot works a lot better when there's a Ringwraith Draining Courage on enemy heroes - and doubly-better when that Ringwraith is the Dwimmerlaik and makes your opponent potentially spend more Might/Will to pass Courage tests). Still, a War Catapult has a nice area of effect damage ability (with volley fire) that will make enemy armies that rely on archery come to you - and that's good. Bringing two of these in this Legion isn't THAT difficult since the inclusion of Gothmog and one other named hero (60-80pts) will allow you to field them (330pts for two War Catapults with Severed Heads). While this runs you upwards of 535 points, you have 30 warrior slots remaining (which you could fill with Mordor Orcs at 6 points/model in a 700pt game). More on this later . . .

You may have noticed that I didn't mention the Siege Bow. That was intentional - while incredibly cheap (50pts), it doesn't have volley fire (though it does throw things back) and it doesn't hit very accurately - and since the War Catapult comes with a Troll, you're basically paying 10-15pts less for a lot less bang for your buck. Just get the War Catapult . . .

Weakness #3: Very Limited "Power Units"
Most armies give you a big hero (or three) that you can use to punch through your opponent's line: Rohan has Eomer, Theodred, Eorl the Young, Helm Hammerhand, and Dernhelm, supported by mid-tier hole-punchers in the form of Deorwine, Theoden, Elfhelm, and Grimbold (and most Rohan Legendary Legions have at least two of these heroes). Minas Tirith has a host of good killing heroes, as do most Elven factions (Lothlorien is a bit lack-luster) and Dwarf factions (though the Iron Hills relies less on its heroes having to cleave through things and more on its warriors and siege engines doing the job).

Ordinarily, Mordor has no lack of hole-punching heroes and monsters at its disposal - be they big spiders, Fell-Beast-riding wraiths, nasty Trolls, or Uruk-Hai monstrocities. All of those power units (except Mordor Trolls) are absent from this list - and as we've already discussed, the hero you're required to bring isn't THAT great at carving through things. Sure, he can dice up Warriors of Minas Tirith, but facing D7 warriors (or F5 Elves) or ANY hero at/above 100 points and he'll find himself in a match-up that he may not win. Trolls are great and Trolls are good, but they're also an expensive tax on your army (and one that will come at the heavy toll of numbers).

Strength #3: Good Mid-Tier Heroes
While this Legion lacks the usual power heroes you'd expect from Mordor, it does have good mid-tier heroes. Like Isengard, these heroes are not going to enjoy a match-up against someone like Aragorn, Gil-Galad, or Thranduil, but they will relish getting locked in against most warriors and mid-tier heroes (most generic heroes and cheap named heroes). These heroes are also cheap enough (and often have 3 Might points) that you can sprinkle them into your list (often without filling their warbands) and add some much-needed punch to your battle line - and as a group, they can often do what one big hero would do to your opponent. At the very least, they can often drain the Might on enemy big heroes so they don't go smashing through your ranks late in the game.

Weakness #4: Bad Courage
Your Orc Warriors and Morannon Orcs are C2, which means you probably want a Shaman if you want your "The Age of Men is Over/Time of the Orc Has Come" rules to work. Your Trolls are C4 and can't benefit from a Shaman (so that could be bad). Your Orc Heroes are C3-5 and benefit A LOT from a Shaman. If you're facing Good vs. Evil, you're unlikely to face a lot of Terror, unless your opponents like Cirdan, Radagast, or the King of the Dead. If they do, you're in a heap of trouble, but Fury will help tremendously. If you face another Evil army (especially a Black Numenorean force or an Angmar army), you could be in for a heap of trouble, as a Sap Will against a Shaman can keep him from keeping Fury up, which means charging people will be very, VERY difficult.

Strength #4: Numbers . . . sometimes?
I'm not really sure that this is a "strength" per se, but it's possible to get a LOT of models into this list. With a 60-pt named hero (like Zagdush, Guritz, or Gothmog's Enforcer) leading 12 Orc Warriors (~75pts), you can get a full warband of models for less than 150 points. Three of these warbands plus Gothmog (without anyone in his warband) is less than 600 points, so at 700+, you can fill in Gothmog's warband, get almost 60 models, and probably have room for 1-2 banners, an Orc Drummer, or upgrade some of those Orc Warriors into Morannon Orcs for +2 points/model. Getting to almost 60 models is nothing to sniff at - and if you can move them up quickly, you're in good shape (the Drum will help).

However, once you start trying to throw in "non-core" units (aka Trolls and Siege Equipment), you run into a problem: each one is going to cost you a hero and some warriors. The more of these specialized units you bring, the smaller your army gets. Depending on your play style, this army might be huge . . . or it might not be big at all.

Part 3: Legendary Legion Improvements

I get that this Legion is about Gothmog, but come on: the Witch-King should be in this Legion! He should also NOT have to be the army leader, since his part in the attack on Minas Tirith was as a scalpel, not as a commander (that was Gothmog's job). I think some of the worst problems with this Legion would be solved if you had the Witch-King in there too (required to take the Crown of Morgul and the Fell Beast, probably the Flail). Keeping Gothmog as a Hero of Legend would allow him to still be required as the army leader, freeing up the Witch-King to either be a Hero of Legend as well OR retain his "normal" Hero of Valor state (which he only keeps if he's in a Barad-Dur list). I could also see him being an Independent Hero, but I'm not sure people would pay the points for him in the Legion if this were the case.

Similarly, there are no other Ringwraiths on Fell Beasts in this Legion (who were clearly there too) - and players on a points budget might really like having these guys around (instead of the Witch-King). Sure, they can't Strike, but they can March people, Hurl people, Rend heroes, and cast magic to neutralize enemy brawlers. All of this would be really helpful - not sure why these guys were omitted except to make it "less like normal Mordor."

Third, I would have included Great Beasts of Gorgoroth in this Legion - not only is the howdah on that thing full of Orcs (which fits the theme), but we see the Great Beasts pulling Grond into combat in his army! Why aren't these guys in this Legion?!?!??! Like I said above, missed opportunity that . . .

For those of you who are reading these three recommendations and thinking, "Okay, you want to add all these guys - why though? Is the Legion not fine the way it is?" To that sentiment, I say "No - it's too much like the Black Gate Opens LL in its make-up." This legion has all the same warrior profiles as the Black Gate Legion (it adds the siege engines). Its heroes are pretty different (the Black Gate only has the Mouth of Sauron vs. 5 named Orc heroes and trades Orc Taskmasters/Shamans/Drummers for Orc Captains and Mordor Troll Chieftains - one of which is the uber-Troll-Chieftain), but the flavor is too similar for me. A Great Beast or a Fell Beast would add some flare to the Army of Gothmog that I feel it's really missing (note though: Ringwraiths on Fell Beasts would be a welcome and thematic addition to the Black Gate Opens LL as well - they were there too, after all).

Part 4: Army Strategies

With little in the way of archery (besides Orcs), you have two options for how this army plays: bring siege engines or run up the middle. While a Mordor War Catapult might be good (it's kind of expensive, but it does come with a Troll who can orbit around the catapult once your opponent comes within minimum range), I think most new players of the Legion will shy away from the big siege weapons and instead focus on spamming melee-oriented Orcs. Spamming Orcs means spamming March/Drums - so that makes Guritz a very logical second or third hero choice (second choice behind Gothmog if you're running siege engines, third choice behind Gothmog and a power hero like Goroth or Zagdush if you're running a spam army).

If you choose to run the siege engine approach, you are choosing to make your opponent come to you. As such, I think that you want to have as much archery in your army as possible (even though your Orc Warriors are horrible archers) simply because you have the opportunity to do a little more damage to him as he approaches. Orc bows might not be good, but anything they do will be welcome. Your archers should prioritize shooting models that will be used as "scatter fodder" where possible, starting out well in front of your siege engines and slowly backing up towards the siege engines. Once your opponent is within minimum range of your army, your Trolls can abandon the siege engines (as can your Siege Veterans, if you like) and you can have them go rampaging through the enemy ranks - just make sure to push your siege engines closer to the front ranks if you need your Trolls to move beyond 6" of the siege engine.

After you've chosen whether to include siege engines in your list, you should turn to whether you're going to use Mordor Trolls. Since a Mordor Troll is provided in the Battle of Pelennor Fields box set, you probably have one already and can find more of them easily on the second-hand market - though fair warning: they're not much cheaper there than just buying them from the GW web store. Trolls marry a good Fight Value (F7) with a good Strength value (S7) with a good Defense value (D7) and a good Attack/Wounds combo (3 Attacks and 3 Wounds). With Courage 4, they're not HORRIBLE at charging Terror models or staying to fight when you're broken, but they're not great either.

Trolls are good fighters, but they come with a hefty price tag of 100 points/model (and 30 points more if you equip them with a War Drum to keep your army moving). This, added to the cost of the hero it takes to field them, can make them a difficult inclusion in most Army of Gothmog lists. Having one on the board is usually not enough to worry a veteran player (without Will, wizards who can cast Transfix/Immobilize are nasty for these guys), so you might need to bring two for them to be worth it (and if you do take 1-2 of these guys, you are probably going to run the minimum number of heroes possible - which means less Might for things like Heroic Strike, Heroic March, or Heroic Combats).

Regardless of whether you take Trolls or not, you then need to decide what your ratio of Morannon Orcs to Orc Warriors is going to be - and each has their Strengths. Morannon Orcs get +1 Strength and +1 Defense for +2 points/model, which is a pretty good trade - but 12 Morannon Orcs will cost you 25+ points MORE than the equivalent number of Orc Warriors and the increased Strength and Defense might not buy you anything (S4/D5 models will be wounding Morannon Orcs on 5s just like Orc Warriors, while Morannon Orcs will wound the S4/D5 models on 5s just like Orc Warriors). Personally, I like spamming Morannons, but I would do so while staying +10 models above where you think you'd like to be with another army (I think you need the numbers in this Legion - and if you go with my "Rule of 30" at 700 points, a 700-point list should shoot for 40 models with this Legion).

Part 5: Army Showcase

At 500 points, almost one-third of our army has been chosen for us with Gothmog. Since Gothmog is not a killing machine, I've opted to include a cheap hero who can plow through troops (Zagdush), a Shaman (for Fury), and an Orc Drummer (for speed). With 285 points spent, we turn to our warriors and we're just spamming Orcs (no Trolls or siege weapons)! With our goal of getting to 30 models at this points level (which should give us a numbers advantage against most factions), we've taken 15 Orc Warriors and 11 Morannon Orcs (one with banner). This near-50/50-split works out well, as we have tools to handle both even-/odd-Defense troops AND even-/odd-Strength troops (and if we find someone that weasles away from our Strength bonus, all of us can Piercing Strike). We have 9 empty warrior slots (technically 10 if we make the Drummer deploy on his own), so there's room to grow our numbers a bit more if you wanted to take fewer Morannons and more Orc Warriors.
  • Gothmog, Lieutenant of Sauron on warg with shield [AL]
    • 5 Orc Warriors with shields
    • 4 Orc Warriors with Orc bows and spears
    • INDEPENDENT: Orc Drummer
  • Zagdush
    • 5 Morannon Orcs with shields
    • 5 Morannon Orcs with shields and spears
    • 1 Mornanon Orc with shield, spear, and banner
  • Orc Shaman
    • 4 Orc Warriors with shields
    • 2 Orc Warriors with Orc bows and spears
As we scale up to 700 points, we can build on this list by adding one named hero (Goroth if you want damage, Guritz if you are concerned about Maelstrom deployments or want more March) and chuck in some more Orcs! When trying to decide between these two heroes, I thought about taking both, but ended up picking Guritz and getting a Mordor Troll with a War Drum (dropping the Orc Drummer). We've removed all the spears from our Morannons in order to get a stouter front line (though we still have some Orcs with shields to protect the flanks of our battle line or to serve as pincushions for S2/S4 archery. With 38 models, we haven't gained that much in numbers, but it should suffice for a 700-point game. The Troll should help Gothmog get free Heroic Strikes if the two of them tag-team against one or two big heroes.
  • Gothmog, Lieutenant of Sauron on warg with shield [AL]
    • 4 Morannon Orcs with shields
    • 1 Orc Warrior with shield
    • 4 Orc Warriors with shields and spears
    • 1 Mordor Troll with War Drum
  • Guritz, Master of Reserves
    • 3 Morannon Orcs with shields
    • 2 Orc Warriors with shields
    • 4 Orc Warriors with shields and spears
  • Zagdush
    • 3 Morannon Orcs with shields
    • 2 Orc Warriors with shields
    • 3 Orc Warriors with shields and spears
    • 1 Orc Warrior with shield, spear, and banner
  • Orc Shaman
    • 6 Orc Warriors with Orc bows
Our final list today features the "double War Catapult" build, which simultaneously runs two Trolls (if they leave their siege engines). Two siege engines aren't going to enjoy Maelstrom fights very much, so Guritz become our default second hero. As I mentioned in my series on List Building, I think you want at least 30 models at 700 points, so to balance out the War Catapults, we've gone with just Orc Warriors and we brought NO Shaman (whenever you spam siege engines, you pay a price). Not having the Shaman means we have exactly one way of dealing with enemy Terror armies: shoot them. As such, I've actually maxed out the number of archers you can have (even though they're horrible) just to make it clear that we're not going to meet anyone in the middle! I managed to hit 32 models at 700 points with the following list - you really need those Catapults to come in clutch though for this to work (but with a reroll To Hit and a reroll To Scatter from the Trolls, these catapults hit pretty reliably)!
  • Gothmog, Lieutenant of Sauron on warg with shield [AL]
    • 5 Orc Warriors with Orc bows
    • 2 Orc Warriors with shields
    • 4 Orc Warriors with shields and spears
    • 1 Orc Warrior with shield, spear, and banner
  • Guritz, Master of Reserves
    • 5 Orc Warriors with Orc bows
    • 2 Orc Warriors with shields
    • 3 Orc Warriors with shields and spears
  • Orc Siege Veteran with Mordor War Catapult with Severed Heads
    • 2 Siege Crew
    • Mordor Siege Engine Troll
  • Orc Siege Veteran with Mordor War Catapult with Severed Heads
    • 2 Siege Crew
    • Mordor Siege Engine Troll
Army Summary

All told, I don't really like this Legion. I've tried, but I feel the Black Gate Opens Legendary Legion is just better (even though it's more hampered in some ways in its hero choices and warrior choices). That said, Gothmog's Legion appears to be pretty popular, so maybe I'm missing something? The double Catapult list intrigues me, but to run it, I'd need to buy Gothmog, Guritz (and the Enforcer), AND two Catapults . . . it'll have to wait until after I get everything from the Quest of the Ringbearer book.

In our next post, we'll look at one of the most popular Legendary Legions from Gondor at War (and a Legion that has remained popular to this day): the Riders of Theoden. Have you ever wanted to call free Heroic Combats with EVERY HERO in your army? How about free Heroic Strikes? Is the idea of riding over an entire enemy flank intriguing to you? And how easy is it to pull off in practice (especially now that Gamling's Royal Standard of Rohan helps a single hero regain a spent Might point when they've exhausted their Might store)? All of these questions and more to come next week - until then, happy hobbying!

10 comments:

  1. Interesting post. I would say ->
    No Great Beasts of Gorgoroth in this list, and... no Morannon Orcs with bow ! I'm pretty sure this would be a usefull choice (archers are axemen in the end uh ?) to hold objective and to use as frontline. Sometimes this game is mysterious xp

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    1. I agree - they clearly had bows in the Return of the King. :) I know sculpts sometimes dictate changes to profiles (like Khandish Warriors exchanging their axes for bows?), but Mordor Uruk-Hai can take them, so why not Morannons!?!?!?!

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  2. Good write up. Tiberius has summarized my experience well. Gothmog is not providing enough at his Point Cost. The March of the Orc hordes strategy is the most threatening.

    One of the glaring issues with the Troll - he doesn’t benefit from any of Gothmogs abilities.

    The Troll doesn’t have Will and no Might. The article mentions the issue but I think Mordor players will emphasize how big a deal that is. It’s a big deal!!

    Tiberius has done a good job to squeeze Lemonade from this Lemon. But this LL feels like a bust.

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    1. Thanks mate - I agree that the Trolls are a bit of a let-down in this Legion (though honestly, would you run them in the Black Gate LL or just take the points you'd pay for a Troll and the Captain that fields him for a Troll Chieftain?), but I think if they're manning catapults, you can make up some of their cost. Eh, it's a Legion - they can't be perfect. :)

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  3. Having played this a bit now, I'm not sure the buffs are worth the loss of the standard Mordor army bonus. Ive not mathshammered it, but this army should be outnumbering folk most of the time.

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    1. I've basically come to that conclusion as well - what it has going for it is that you can afford to get lots of siege weapons in it because you aren't pressed to buy a Ringwraith or two (not that the siege weapons get better in this Legion, though). Honestly, I think generic Mordor is better than any of its Legions (Black Riders are very competitive in the hands of the right player and Cirith Ungol is cool and fun, but there's no beating the standard Mordor bonus, allies, and just the options they have).

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  4. You're wrong about the siege bow being a waste. They only need to hit once. I can regularly kill its points value x2 in one hit, if not 3x times when you hit a hero.

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    1. If siege bows work for you - awesome. I like the tactical advantages you get from having 2 mordor trolls on the board from the war catapults, the radial area of effect instead of the knock-back, and the option to force low-Courage models to test for courage or die with severed heads. 330pts invested in two catapults (plus 205pts for Guritz and Gothmog) is a lot, but I like the options it gives me over "just some shooting guys."

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  5. Late to the party on this one as I'm only just pondering a list for a forthcoming game, fancied using Gothmog, so thought I'd look at the LL. My problem is that while I like the model and the special rules for it, I have found Gothmog to be massively underwhelming in the games I've played with him. Biggest problem is that he is just too fragile and nowhere near enough of a damage dealer for the points cost, I'll pay the extra points and take the WK every time, either that or a cluster of the other Mordor heroes that, bundled together, would provide far more value than 145 pts blown on Gothmog. It's a real shame and I'm hoping he'll get a significant rework for the new edition, at the moment it seems he's pointed as Lieutenant of Sauron but with stats from when he was a mere corporal!

    Glad I read this as it seems there is literally zero reason for me to waste time trying this LL over a regular Mordor build. I'm guessing it must be popular from being a big movie scene and / or maybe players want to play it so much that they have practiced getting the best out of the Corporal of Sauron and keeping him alive long enough to do so (e.g. avoiding combat with heroes at all costs other than maybe the bog-standard Captain 50pt variety!).

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    1. There are some players out there who love this Legion, but I am not one of them. Generally speaking, the Orc Heroes borrowing Gothmog's Stand Fast is probably the best improvement over a normal Mordor list, but Kardush can do something similar with Fury. Also, if your heroes are Ringwraiths or the Mouth of Sauron, your Courage is already good, so . . .

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