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The Stuff of Legends: The Wolf Pack of Angmar

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Monday, January 11, 2021

The Stuff of Legends: Men of the West Review

Good morning gamers

Today marks the beginning of a new series on Legendary Legions. For those who are unfamiliar, one of the hallmark traits of the newest re-imaging of the Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game is a focus on theme. To that end, the armies provided in the Armies of the Lord of the Rings and the Armies of the Hobbit have been supplemented by new "armies" that can be taken that mix units from different lists (such as Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli being added to army lists with Rohan or Dunharrow units) OR pared down lists to a smaller number of units to allow for thematic armies that mirror events in the movies or books (such as the heroes of Rohan at the Pelennor Fields or the Orc legions led by Gothmog). These armies come with special rules that make them different from your average allied-contingent force and some have become very appealing to both competitive and casual players alike. Because of their thematic nature, you can't ally with other factions when taking these Legions.

In today's post, we'll be tackling one of the most iconic and beloved scenes from the Return of the King - and one of the least popular Legendary Legions to date: the Men of the West. Recently there was a tournament review from the NZMEL's final event of 2020 where a Men of the West army went 3-3 in a 750-pt tournament (which I feel is pretty good). It may not be viewed by most as a competitive list, but I have been surprised having whipped it out a few times with how powerful it can be (especially at low points levels . . . which is really counter-intuitive).

We'll start off by looking at what is required by this Legendary Legion and how this Legendary Legion differs from its FIVE allied contingents (three that are normally historical allies with each other and two that are historical allies normally, but all five would be convenient allies instead). We'll then delve into the strengths and weaknesses of this Legendary Legion and what the purpose of the different units in the list is while doing this. We'll go over some recommended improvements to the Legion (if we had the power) and some strategies you can use in army creation/usage for the list. Finally, we'll look at some lists that showcase how to maximize the strengths of this Legion and mitigate its weaknesses. Let's get started!

Part 1: What Do You Need?

Legion Tax: 225pts
The only model you NEED to take in this army is Aragorn, King Elessar. "King Aragorn" (as we'll be calling him from now on) is one of the most beastly heroes in the game (if not THE most beastly hero in the game), capable of dealing lots of damage thanks to Anduril and winning duels round after round thanks to his Mighty Hero rule (which translates into a free Heroic Strike against big things OR free Heroic Combats against little things OR free boosted duel/wounding roll if you're up against more little things than you can kill OR free Heroic Defenses should you run into things that are too big for you). With 3 Attacks and a banner reroll (granted to both himself and any friendly model within 6" of him), Aragorn is going to win a lot of fights - and much of what he faces he will kill. No matter what you're throwing against him, King Aragorn has decent odds at beating whatever he fights.

There are two army building restrictions which create a pseudo-requirement on your army: first, no one gets horses. We'll get into this more when we get to the strengths and weaknesses portion, but if you're used to paying 240 points for King Aragorn (because you always put him on an armored horse) or if your first purchase for Eomer is a mount, then you'll find yourself saving some points on each of these heroes that can be thrown into something else.

The Men of the West Bonuses
The other army building restriction is that you can only bring Gondor warriors in warbands led by Gondor heroes and you can only bring Rohan warriors in warbands led by Rohan heroes. This means that a) King Aragorn can lead 18 Warriors of Minas Tirith/Knights of Dol Amroth, b) if you want more Warriors of Minas Tirith/Knights of Dol Amroth, you'll need to bring another Gondor hero (Imrahil if you have the points, Beregond if you're on a budget, or Captains of Minas Tirith/Dol Amroth if you have 55-65 points), and c) if you want Warriors of Rohan, you need to include Eomer or Captains of Rohan.

If you want to bring some of the more specialist heroes (Legolas, Gimli, Gandalf, or Elladan and Elrohir - better known as "the Twins"), you can include them too - but they can't lead any warriors because of the keyword restrictions mentioned above (we'll be delving into that momentarily).

Part 2: Why Take This Legion Over "Normal" Allied Forces?

The Legion trades the normal army bonuses you would get from Minas Tirith, Rohan, and the Fiefdoms (+1 Courage to all models from a Minas Tirith army, +1 Strength on the charge for all Rohan Cavalry models, and the ability to get weird-yet-powerful bonuses from Fiefdoms heroes) for two neat rules: first and foremost, everyone in the army passes all Courage tests while Aragorn is on the battlefield (which basically means you've got army-wide Bodyguard). Second, for one turn of the game, Aragorn can give +1 Fight Value to all friendly models within 12" of him (which is basically Boromir's banner bonus with Imrahil's banner range). Though I think there should have been a rule similar to Animosity in the Ugluk's Scouts/Cirith Ungol Legendary Legions (which we'll cover later in the series), these are two pretty good army rules.

All that said, let's get this out of the way from the get-go:

Your heroes and your selection of warriors for Minas Tirith, Rohan, and the Fiefdoms is much worse in this Legendary Legion than if you were to ally the forces normally.

Okay, I said it. Let's look at some strengths and weaknesses, to see why . . .

Weakness #1: Very Limited Warrior Selection
What this list has done is taken the most basic warrior choice from three different lists and removed all of the other warrior options. The most basic warrior choice from Minas Tirith (Warriors of Minas Tirith) is available for inclusion and all the elite warriors are off the table (most particularly Rangers of Gondor, Fountain Court Guard, and Knights of Minas Tirith - and Citadel Guard if you're Centaur). It has also kept the most basic of warrior choices from Rohan (Warriors of Rohan) and gotten rid of all the elite warriors (most particularly Riders of Rohan and Rohan Royal Guards). Finally, the list has taken the most generic of the warrior options from the Fiefdoms (Knights of Dol Amroth without the option for an armored horse or lance) and gotten rid of all their other warrior options (all Fiefdoms warriors are elite and ANY of them would be a great addition to this list). From a Warrior-perspective alone, I think a normal three-army-historical-alliance is worth taking over this Legion.

Strength #1: "Cheap, Flexible" Units
While your warrior options are certainly more limited, this list has access to cheap warriors who are good at different things (and together, can do basically everything that you can do with infantry). Sure, Rohan Royal Guards have higher Fight/Defense than Warriors of Rohan (and get Bodyguard), but for 3 points less per model, you can get Warriors of Rohan who are "fine" (F3/D5). For 9 points/model, Warriors of Rohan can take shields and throwing spears, making them very flexible skirmish troops who do a tolerable job of harassing enemy models (especially infantry blocks that can't charge them). Thanks to the army-wide Bodyguard rule, you get some interesting cost savings in the army (and for one turn, Warriors of Rohan can be F4 too, which just means you're lower on Defense than the Rohan Royal Guards, but otherwise are the same). There is no replacing mounted Rohan units, but the Warriors of Rohan (if built for skirmishing) are pretty good.

Similarly, Warriors of Minas Tirith are not as good as Guards of the Fountain Court (F4/D7 with Bodyguard), but Warriors of Minas Tirith can be F3/D7 while Shieldwall is active with Bodyguard (thanks to the Legion bonus) for 2 points less per model. For 9 points/model, you can get Warriors of Minas Tirith with spears and either a shield or a bow (or spend 10 points/model to get them spears, shields, and bows) to be tough melee troops/archers that can bolster your battle line. However you choose to run these guys, they're decent fighters (and again, for one turn of the game, they can be F4 as well - basically Fountain Court Guard).

Knights of Dol Amroth have many of the characteristics that you want from a Rohan Royal Guard or Guard of the Fountain Court (F4/D6 with Bodyguard in this Legion), but they're 1 point more expensive than either of these options (same cost as the Guard of the Fountain Court with shield at -1 Defense and no spear, though you do get +1 Courage I guess). With the cost savings you get from Warriors of Minas Tirith in this army list, I'm not really sure that these guys are worth taking unless Imrahil is in the list (when within 3" of him, the Knights of Dol Amroth are F5 - and they count as being in range of a banner while he's within 12"). Without Imrahil, though, it's just better to buy Warriors of Minas Tirith point-for-point.

Most of what I've covered here emphasizes how you "save some points" on each model - but in case it wasn't made clear in the discussion, since each Warrior of Minas Tirith will cost you 8-10 points and each Warrior of Rohan will cost you 7-9 points, by saving 2-3 points per elite model you forego, you're getting an extra warrior for every 3 warriors you take (that means an army that would normally have 24 warriors is now 32 warriors strong). These extra warriors not only boost your break point, but if you can pile them into fights, you can bring numbers to bear against your opponent (and if you can force your opponent to shield, you can keep your guys alive longer).

Weakness #2: No Mounts = Worse Heroes (and Warriors)
We've already mentioned that no one gets horses - no horse for Aragorn, no horse for Eomer, no horse for Imrahil, no horse for Gandalf, no horse for Legolas - you get the picture. Eomer and Imrahil are great heroes when mounted. King Aragorn is really dangerous and scary when mounted. Gandalf the White is a versatile caster and impregnable to most magical barrages when mounted. Legolas is a versatile and dangerous model on foot, but is WAY more dangerous when mounted. The Twins are better at wounding on a turn when they charge when mounted. In this list, none of them get their mounts - and you'd be able to mount ALL of these heroes if you took them from a normal list (admittedly, the Twins are pretty good on foot).

You also have no horses for any of your warriors - and while that might be fine for Minas Tirith (their knights are good for their cost, but not fantastic compared to the other allied contingents), it's a real shame for the Rohan/Dol Amroth contingents. While I get the thematic need for everyone to be on foot, it undeniably reduces the damage output of these heroes (to say nothing of the warriors that can't be mounted).

Strength #2: Your Heroes are Cheaper
Without access to horses, your heroes have the advantage of being cheaper. Normally, you'd need to pay 160 points for Imrahil - but if you don't need a lance or armored horse, you can take the 20 points in savings on him, accept that his effectiveness has fallen, and throw those points at the one thing you won't get if you try to ally normally: numbers. In a normal game, can you really run a 160-point Imrahil with a 240-point King Aragorn? With 400 points locked up in two big heroes, I'm sure some good players might be able to make it work, but most of your synergies for the Fiefdoms (to say nothing of the heroes/warriors you'll be passing up from Minas Tirith) will be gone.

Similarly, Eomer would be better with either of his horse options (and his option for throwing spears would be welcome in this list for sure), but with "just a shield," he's 105 points - and he's DARN GOOD for being just over 100 points! Normally he'd cost 15-20 points more in a Rohan list (and this usually makes him a no-go for most Rohan armies at lower points levels, since Dernhelm is 35-40 points cheaper and about as punchy). In this list, he's an "easy" slot-in with Aragorn and allows you to bring skirmish troops. That's welcome.

Heroes like Legolas, Gimli, Gandalf, and the Twins are also cheaper, but a discussion of these heroes leads us to . . .

Weakness #3: Not All Heroes Can Lead Troops
Another weird aspect to this list is that Gandalf the White, who can normally lead Warriors of Minas Tirith, can't lead Warriors of Minas Tirith in this list because he doesn't have the Gondor keyword (or the Rohan keyword for that matter). These keywords are also lacking on Legolas, Gimli, and the Twins, which means these big, EXPENSIVE heroes can't lead warriors. Are they going to be worth throwing into your army if they can't lead anyone? Maybe for some of these heroes, but most of them are not going to see the light of day (especially Gandalf the White).

The saddest thing about these heroes not getting the Gondor/Rohan keywords is that they're the models that would make a normal alliance with Minas Tirith/Rohan/the Fiefdoms become Convenient (Legolas/Gimli from the Fellowship, Elladan/Elrohir from Rivendell) - and unlike other Legendary Legions where these heroes are allowed to lead troops as if they were native to the list (like the Return of the King LL or the Defenders of Helm's Deep LL, which we'll cover later in this series), these heroes are restricted from leading anyone. It's sad . . .

Strength #3: March and Banner Taken Care Of
For many low-point games, you're going to be running as many infantry warriors as possible to pad your numbers (you are paying for Aragorn up-front, after all). Infantry need March. It often helps if they also have a banner. For most armies, getting both of these in your list will cost you 75-100 points to get - but both capabilities are included in Aragorn's base cost (which is PHENOMENAL VALUE)! With Aragorn already on the table, you can spend the points you would have spent on a March-support-hero on a killing-support-hero (like Eomer or Imrahil) and STILL have enough points for warriors to keep these heroes from being overwhelmed. And since King Aragorn can lead 18 warriors, you can pack in lots of warriors at low points levels with just Aragorn - that's pretty sweet! Oh, and did I mention already that Aragorn is a 6" banner?

Strength #4: One Turn Of Glory
Perhaps the greatest advantage of this list is its once-per-game ability where everyone within 12" of Aragorn gets +1 Fight Value for a single round. As we've already said, that means we get Fight 4 on our Warriors of Minas Tirith and Warriors of Rohan for one round (which is good). We also get Fight 5 on our Knights of Dol Amroth if we leave Imrahil at home and (wait for it) FIGHT 6 on our Knights of Dol Amroth with we have Imrahil within 3" of them as well! You can get F6 Knights of Dol Amroth in a Minas Tirith-Fiefdoms alliance if you bring mega-Boromir with you, but Boromir's banner is a 6" bubble (which is harder to maintain). A 12" bubble that exists once per game is easy to keep up - especially if you're fighting in one place.

The best thing about this ability isn't what it does for your warriors - it's what it does for your heroes! Aragorn becomes F7 (one of two Aragorn versions to get above F6 without using Strike - and the only one equipped with Anduril). Imrahil also becomes F7, which makes him even more beastly than he was before (despite not having a horse). Eomer becomes F6 - and this is the ONLY list where he becomes Fight 6 (I'm looking at you Riders of Eomer LL - WHY IS EOMER NOT F6 in that Legion?!?!?!?!? I'm sure we'll cover that in a later post). If you can afford them, Legolas/Gimli/the Twins also become F7 monstrosities (which brings Legolas closer to the "Mega-las" that was released during the Hobbit era). While I could go through the handful of other profiles, you get the idea - your heroes get really, REALLY good . . . for one turn . . .

Part 3: Legendary Legion Improvements

If I could make any changes to this Legendary Legion, I'd start by swapping the Knights of Dol Amroth with Men-at-arms of Dol Amroth. Not only do these guys look more like the Warriors of Minas Tirith we see in the movies, but they're also a closer price-point to the Warriors of Minas Tirith. They cost 1 point more than a Warrior of Minas Tirith with a spear and they have +1 Fight Value for it (+2 if Imrahil is within 3" of them). They cost the same as Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields and spears and have +1 Fight Value and -1 Defense (and no ability to shield) and can pike support instead of spear support. This is a much better point efficiency than Knights of Dol Amroth (and while you wouldn't get any F4/D6 units innately, these guys can still be F6 while within 12" of Aragorn and 3" of Imrahil for one round).

Second, I'd change the warband creation rules to allow you to bring Rohan units if you bring at least one Rohan hero. You've got Aragorn in the list already, so Gondor units are a given, but I think the intent of the army creation rules was to make sure you didn't bring Rohan units without a Rohan commander to lead them. This rule change would still require you to bring a mix of heroes in order to bring a mix of warriors, but it would allow heroes like Gimli, Legolas, Gandalf, and the Twins to lead units (and hence make them much more viable hero options in the list). It would also allow you to make warbands that have a mixture of Rohan and Gondor units, which would be more thematic based on what we see in the movies (which is mixed ranks of Rohan and Gondor units, vs. blobs of units all from the same faction).

Finally, I think it would be better if there was some kind of synergy between having Gondor and Rohan units near each other. Like the Animosity rules in the Ugluk's Scouts or Cirith Ungol Legendary Legions (which, to be fair, were introduced in later sourcebooks), it would be nice if there were some kind of bonus for having Rohan and Gondor units fighting together (or at least near each other, like they do in Battle Companies - though their +1 to Dueling rolls bonus would be too powerful). Personally, I'd allow them to reroll 1s to Wound (basically giving them free Feint special strikes), which we see in many army bonuses - don't think it would be too over-powered. As it stands, it's okay that they don't synergize (you can have the Gondor guys do the "anvil" thing while the Rohan guys do the "skirmish" thing), but it would be cooler if they worked better together. Not a big nit, just saying . . .

Part 4: Army Strategies

Your first strategy is to determine whether you want a Rohan contingent or Imrahil - even at high points levels, you're not likely to be able to have a real Rohan force AND Imrahil in your army at the same time. If you want a Rohan contingent (I prefer this play style - love throwing weapons), you want Eomer - he might be more expensive than a Captain, but he's WAY worth it. Compared to a 55-point heavy-armor-and-shield-Captain, Eomer (at 105 points) gets +1 Fight Value (F5), +1 Attack (3 Attacks), +1 Wound (3 Wounds), +1 Might (3M), +2 Will (3W), and +2 Fate (3F). Having two heroes with 3A/3W and 3/3/3 for heroic stats between Eomer and Aragorn is REALLY good - and it only costs you 330 points to field both (so even in games at 450+ points, you can easily field both of these guys). 

If you choose to run Imrahil, take at least 6 Knights of Dol Amroth to flank him (you can run more, but I think 6 is your bare-minimum). Back them and Imrahil up with Warriors of Minas Tirith with spears and shields for more efficiency - and they don't have to stay within range of Aragorn's banner buff because Imrahil counts as a banner for the Knights of Dol Amroth. This will be a nasty block to shift, as your front-line warriors will be F5, your hero will be F6, and your line is 7" long (which is quite long in this game). Running 6 Knights of Dol Amroth and 7 Warriors of Minas Tirith with spears and shields will run you a bill of 269 points with Imrahil (494 points when you include the cost of Aragorn in this list). Like I said, you can't really run Rohan guys if you bring Imrahil (you're going to run close to 700pts just by filling out Aragorn's warband).

Like Numenor, you want to have 33% of your army equipped with bows - either Warriors of Rohan or Warriors of Minas Tirith are fine. By giving bows to Warriors of Minas Tirith, you can also equip them with spears (9 points/model) so they can support from the second rank AND you can equip them with shields (10 points/model) so they can support from the second rank AND give the shieldwall buff to the front line. By putting bows in the shieldwall, you can make your opponents come to you instead of you having to trot off to fight them. These models are expensive for this list, but not THAT expensive (and not even the most expensive warrior option available to you). If you take Warriors of Rohan with bows, you're leaving them behind cover at objectives to put fire down on people before they come to you.

Spears are also really important here - with only basic troops, you need to capitalize on core equipment options and your heroes will be a bit more effective if there are spears around to give them +1 die to win their fights (and potentially get an extra Wound if they win). For your warriors, getting that extra die is also very important, since you're fighting with a "normal" Fight Value. While I'm not sure you need to have 50% spears (like I do when I run Numenor), it wouldn't hurt to do that.

If you're running Rohan, I think you should take at least 6 Warriors of Rohan with throwing spears and shields. The skirmish potential of these units, paired with the March from Aragorn, gives you real threat from a distance against enemy infantry blocks. With Warriors of Rohan able to harass enemy shieldwalls that are advancing towards your shieldwall (which is shooting as well, ideally), I think you can weaken most enemy formations long before they get to "actually fighting you." Beware of cavalry, of course - but even if you're charged, you can defend by shielding (which is better than nothing).

Finally, I think you're aiming for a single big round of combat with LOTS of skirmishing before then. During that one round of combat, you call "For Frodo!" with Aragorn and you're getting that higher Fight Value on everyone. If you have been whittling down your opponent's army as they approach and then throw Aragorn and Eomer/Imrahil into the flanks of the formation and EVERYONE is Fight 4 (Warriors of Rohan/Minas Tirith), Fight 6 (Eomer/Knights of Dol Amroth), or Fight 7 (Aragorn/Imrahil), you will kill a lot of stuff. You might not kill everyone in one round, but ideally you'll get Heroic Combats off from both Aragorn and Eomer/Imrahil, which will send them crashing into the center of the enemy formation from the rear so that the front-line models are now trapped! Yep, anything that's left should be easily mopped up in the following round (even though your units "go back to being normal").

Part 5: Army Showcase

Our first list we'll be looking at is a 500-point list and it runs the combined arms force of Gondor and Rohan. I think 500 is too low to run Aragorn and Imrahil, so we're taking Aragorn and Eomer and pumping their warbands full of warriors. We've got 19 warriors for 21 models total, 6 of which have bows and spears (and one other has just a bow to get us to 33% bows). We also have our minimum of 6 Warriors of Rohan with throwing spears and shields. Eomer is escorting the shieldwall with Aragorn, while the Warriors of Rohan (and random Minas Tirith bowman) are running around with abandon, doing whatever they want to do (converging for our one round of glory):
  • Aragorn, King Elessar [AL]
    • 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields
    • 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields, spears, and bows
    • 1 Warrior of Minas Tirith with bow
  • Eomer, Marshal of the Riddermark with shield
    • 6 Warriors of Rohan with shields and throwing spears
Our second list bumps this list up to 700 points and we're taking Legolas and a few more guys. Legolas can't lead troops, but he provides us with more archery to drive our opponents to us (which is important for this list). While we could have taken a Captain of Minas Tirith/Rohan/Dol Amroth, none of them are THAT good. Gimli would be a better melee choice, but he's going to take longer to get involved in the fight (unless he escorts your Warriors of Rohan skirmishers). 

If you go back to our list building series, this list happens to check most of the boxes: we have a free March to make our infantry "fast units" (best we can do in this Legion), we have an actual banner, we have exactly 30 models (my recommended minimum for 700-points), and we have plenty of augments with wargear, banner rules, Bodyguard across the army, and the bonus Fight Value for one turn. We don't really have any ways to neutralize enemy models, unless you count Legolas sniping mounts/plucking wounds off heroes, throwing spears/bows to whittle down numbers/take out augmenting models, and draining resources with Aragorn's free Might point and Eomer shielding (which is a BALLER CRAZY way to stop enemy heroes from doing anything).
  • Aragorn, King Elessar [AL]
    • 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields
    • 3 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields and spears
    • 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields, spears, and bows
    • 3 Warriors of Minas Tirith with bows
  • Eomer, Marshal of the Riddermark with shield
    • 8 Warriors of Rohan with shields and throwing spears
    • 1 Warrior of Rohan with shield, throwing spears, and banner
  • Legolas Greenleaf with armor
Our final list today is the "Pure Gondor" list where we're running Aragorn and Imrahil together. Because Imrahil costs more than Eomer (and Knights of Dol Amroth cost more than Warriors of Minas Tirith), you'd expect our numbers to drop a bit, but by losing Legolas our numbers have actually increased. Without Rohan in the mix, our resilience goes up, our play-style completely changes, and our frontline gets a bit better. Imrahil should be squarely inside his warband, while Aragorn orbits around his warband. We don't have Legolas, but we do have 12 bows and 36 models (we'd be losing about 10 models if we added Legolas, which would bring us below my 30-model rule).
  • Aragorn, King Elessar [AL]
    • 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields
    • 5 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields, spears, and bows
    • 3 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields and spears
    • 4 Warriors of Minas Tirith with bows
  • Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth
    • 6 Knights of Dol Amroth
    • 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields and spears
    • 1 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shield, spear, and banner
    • 3 Warriors of Minas Tirith with bows
Army Summary

Hopefully something in this post was new for you and you found it interesting. I think this list could be run without Legolas, Gimli, or the Twins and just ally normally between Minas Tirith, Rohan, and the Fiefdoms. I'm hazarding a guess that it COULD be much better than the lists we covered today, though the more elite troops will lower your model count quite a bit. Rangers of Gondor/Blackroot Vale Archers are cheap bows, but your cavalry contingents will be more expensive and the heroes will be more expensive too. What I like about this Legion, after playing with it a few times and thinking about it a lot, is that it might be the only way to actually play this scene from the movie.

In our next post, we'll look at another seldom-seen Legendary Legion: the Grey Company. While the Men of the West loses a lot of options that the vanilla alliance does, the Grey Company loses very little from the original Rangers list and gives a LOT more options. Should be interesting (especially if you like all-hero armies) - until next time, happy hobbying!

15 comments:

  1. Some of this is a stretch (like Strength #2), but I think you've done an admirable job of walking through one of the two Aragorn legions that left me wanting more (the other being the Grey Company).

    Unlike you, I am all for the legion getting the battle companies bonus (+1 to duel rolls for Gondor/Rohan if within 3" of a friendly Rohan/Gondor). On all troops, I agree it'd be too much (although as a once-per-game bonus, I don't think it's OP although it'd be crazy-good). But it's a hero-only rule in the battle company, so it would make sense to restrict it to heroes in the legion as well. Giving your heroes +1 to their duel rolls both keeps its scope more limited AND encourages you to bring more of those focal-point heroes (which is the main reason to take this force over, say, just allied contingents).

    Since Gandalf, Gimli, Legolas, and the Twins lack the required keywords, I'd let them get the bonus within 3" of Aragorn (or either of the hobbits, because they're hobbits! Of course everyone's going to fight harder when they're around!).
    I probably still wouldn't run the legion much (mostly because it works best at 1000+ points, I think), but I don't think it'd feel as sub-optimal as it does in its current form.

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    1. All good thoughts - I think the cost savings for not getting mounts on it's own is a marginal benefit. The cost savings of the mounts AND the cheaper warriors is real. I compared running Imrahil with Elessar in the article, but even if you compare Elessar with Eomer (355-365pts vs. 330 in this Legion), you're in for a lot of money spent. The Rohan contingent is likely to be predominantly cavalry because of their bonus, while Elessar is likely to have Knights as escorts, Fountain Court Guard/WoMT, and Rangers. Any mounted models save you 5-7pts/model, while the infantry will save you 0-3pts/model. Those savings translate into +1 model for every 2 models the allied list takes (maybe more). The numbers work out if you want them...

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    2. Well yes, but there's a definite trade-off that comes with having (a) no elite troops (in Gondor's case, that's a lack of F4), (b) no cavalry (more punishing for Minas Tirith and especially Rohan, less for Fiefdoms just because I think you're less likely to spam mounted Dol Amroth Knights in an alliance), and (c) above-average/spammable archery (especially hard for Minas Tirith, which loses access to the Rangers as you noted--and to a lesser extent mounted Citadel Guard/foot Citadel Guard with longbows and the siege engines).

      At most standard points levels, I'm skeptical the amount of points you _save_ (which you then pour into some additional troops) outweighs the amount of damage you lose by giving up cavalry, upgraded archers, and more F4. Battlefield-wide Bodyguard is great, but all three vanilla factions can get Terror-bypasses on their own pretty easily (Fountain Court/Citadel Guard for MT, Royal Guard/Erkenbrand for Rohan, and Angbor for Fiefdoms). So I'm not sure that bonus is enough to merit giving up everything else that you're giving up.

      And no, this is not me trying to goad you into taking this legion to the GT. ;-)

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    3. And just to be clear--this is not to say the legion can't be competitive (because every army that features Aragorn absolutely can be competitive). But it gives up a lot of the other competitive things that you can generally use to compliment Aragorn (to say nothing of the competitive handicap you impose on Aragorn himself by stripping him of his horse).

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    4. I completely agree - getting a few more models might not make a big difference in whether you break or not (and it certainly means you're playing with less elite troops). The fact that most of your units can shoot in this list (if all of your Rohan units have throwing spears and 1/3 of your army are WoMT with bows) means that you might not have to rely on your archery to do quite as much as you normally would.

      All this to say you do suffer on both warrior and hero damage/utility levels with this Legion, but you do get something out of it.

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  2. This legion sucks, both in rules and theme too. At this point Gandalf has lost his staff, so not having the free Will would be accurate, but perhaps GW didn't want to make Gandalf even worse than he already is in this list. Gandalf not leading warriors is also strange and inaccurate, as is not being able to combine models in warbands; in the movie everyone was fighting together! I wonder if adding Eagles to the Legion would have made it more popular, and I wonder why they didn't add them.

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    1. Yeah... it is weird, given that Gandalf can lead troops in generic Minas Tirith. I would almost be tempted to treat that as a rules oversight, and house-rule that he could. Although at anything less than 800 points, I'd be surprised if you see both Elessar and Gandalf much in the same list (because if you do, it's pretty much going to be just a Minas-Tirith list, in which case there's little-to-no reason to run the Legion over generic Minas Tirith).

      Adding the eagles would be a cool wrinkle, but unless you allow them to become pseudo-independent heroes (or led by another hero, like Aragorn), that's a minimum of 470 points tied up in three models (Aragorn, Gwaihir, and an eagle). Granted, that's three awesome models, but again: unless you're playing at over 800 points, that's probably not really viable. :-P

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    2. As addressed in the article, I think the Gandalf-not-leading-troops thing really hurts his inclusion in the list. His no-staff thing is covered in the End of All Things scenarioin the Quest of the Ringbearer sourcebook, but I wouldn't mind a 50pt reduction on him if he lost it. Sure, he'd be less effective, but his 2A with F5/S5 3M+Strike and an Elven sword makes him a decent fighter.

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    3. I don't think the list gets broken by adding Gwahir + Eagles, there are too many expensive things you want anyway and it does add to the themey elements you could choose. Just including them as warrior profiles anyone could lead I think would be fine. If you want to restrict them then maybe saying only in Gandalf or Gwahir's warband would be the thing to do.

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    4. There are a few ways the list could be improved - Gwaihir and Eagles are certainly one of those ways. For additional ways, I will direct you to Rythbyrt's Ranger revamp articles on our Christmas page - despite having Rangers in the title, the application of his document is quite extensive: https://tellmeatalegreatorsmall.blogspot.com/p/tmat-christmas-shenanigans.html.

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  3. Great article, I felt like you really gave the Legion the absolute best treatment it could get. I think your overall take roughly lines up with mine: that it's probably not as bad as people pretend it is, but just doesn't quite make it to the level you'd hope it would. There are just so many missed opportunities in the list that are so frustrating, like the inability of most heroes to lead troops, the absence of the Men-at-Arms, the lack of synergy between the two factions or the ability to mix warbands. All of those could have been so easily fixed, and they make the Legion feel so much worse than it really is. I like the concept of this Legion so much, and I just really wish that it felt a tiny bit more playable.

    My stronger take is that the biggest problem with this Legion is actually just a symptom of a broader issue for MESBG: that horses are way too good on heroes for their price (well, vice versa I suppose). A hero like Aragorn gets their damage output over doubled on the charge for less than a 7% increase in cost, while getting increased mobility and durability totally for free. I've got an article written about this, but I think the game as a whole would be a lot better if the price of mounts scaled with the Attack value of a hero: 10 points for A1, 20 for A2, 30 for A3. I think it'd make it a genuine choice as to whether you bought a horse or not, which I think is the sign of a healthy game. It'd also make heroes who can't get horses- like Celeborn, Gimli and every hero in this Legion- vastly more competitive, because they no longer need to compete with heroes who can kill twice as much, move faster and survive more damage back for a tiny premium

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    1. Scaling the cost of mounts is an interesting idea - it would certainly make it more of a choice as to whether the mount was worth buying, but I'm not sure that one can justify asking Glorfindel to pay +20 points for Asfaloth than Arwen would (since he's got 3A and she's only got 1A). In a way, getting +1A for being on the charge has diminishing returns on your dueling roll based on how many dice you roll (though the doubling of dice when you roll to Wound has quite a bit more benefit), so it might be better to do a +10, +15, +20 step instead.

      While I think heroes who can't take mounts do suffer in the damage department for not having steeds, Celeborn and Gimli aren't two examples of this in my opinion. Between Celeborn's enchanted blades (the rerolls make it so you are almost getting double dice, not to mention the potential for channelling it to get +1 to Wound) and Gimli's "Legolas-is-outscoring-me" +1 To Wound bonus, I've not had much trouble with these guys killing stuff (except the other day when Celeborn just couldn't kill anything, so not sure that giving him a mount would have helped much).

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    2. I'd definitely agree that the idea is a rough one, and could do with some playtesting; the most I've done is looked at some points totals and gone "That looks about right."

      In saying that, I think I stick by all of those examples as making sense. Sure, Arwen is technically getting the same benefit as Glorfindel, but she definitely isn't in practical terms. All she's likely to use Asfaloth for is getting into position to make use of her spells a couple of times (i.e. the mobility benefit) and maybe charging once or twice in desperation. Glorfindel, on the other hand, will be charging into combat every single turn he can, give or take, and will be doing vastly more damage if he's mounted than if he's walking. It's roughly a 50% damage increase for him overall (assuming he charges every second turn), so you're gaining ~72.5 points worth of damage output from a ten point investment. I'm sure we can both agree that Arwen's getting nothing close to that out of her purchase of Asfaloth.

      In regards to the diminishing returns, I definitely agree, but I also agree with your bracketed point, and would further add that an A3 model is likely to win more fights and thus enjoy the doubled Wound rolls more often than an A2 or A1 model.

      In saying that, I do acknowledge that the gap between A2 and A3 models in terms of the value they get from a horse purchase maybe isn't as big as that between A1 and A2 models. Theoden is still going to want to be in combat a lot, and thus benefiting from the offensive boosts of a horse, even if he maybe doesn't benefit quite as much as Eomer. To that end, potentially a 10/20/25 or 10/25/30 split might be better, so that non-combat models like Arwen or Saruman aren't overpaying for a horse, while combat models have to seriously consider whether it's worthwhile. That would probably require playtesting, but I do think that at least the gap between A1 and A2 models should be pretty significant.

      In regards to Gimli and Celeborn, I do agree that they can both cope, to an extent. However, I think we have to agree that they suffer from it, simply because if they could take a horse they almost always would. Gimli on a horse would be genuinely scary, and the "Give Celeborn a horse" movement has been around since the edition first released.

      Moreover, I think a lot of why neither is seen that much in top tournament lists (that I can recall) is because they can be so readily compared to equivalent models that can be mounted. On foot, Gimli and Boromir are pretty even I think: Gimli is tougher and has more killing special rules, while Boromir is better at winning combats against mooks and has more Might. But Boromir is allied into tournament-winning Convenient Alliances somewhat frequently, while I don't think I've seen Gimli win a tournament except for in a full Fellowship. Celeborn with a sword is 35 points cheaper than Elrond, only giving up a little durability and a Priority bonus and having several advantages of his own. Yet Elrond is a top-tier competitive model who's been in many winning lists and Celeborn is, at best, a "hidden gem." I think that ultimately has to come down to the horse thing. So while I agree both can mitigate their footslogging nature to an extent, I think that they're perfect examples of how horses are underpriced.

      As an aside, I think some even better examples are the Erebor Reclaimed heroes. That list is packed full of phenomenally efficient heroes like Gloin, Nori and Dori, yet I've only ever seen Dwalin, Thorin, Fili and Kili played, because they're the ones who can be mounted

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    3. So, funny story: at TMAT’s fall tournament a couple years back, I ran the big 5 champs (Thorin, Dwalin, Gloin, Nori, Dori), all on foot, with 19 foot dwarves backing them up. I did it mostly for model count reasons, and it worked (mostly because two of the three armies I hit had 5 or less models in them, and that particular list does pretty good against all-hero armies). But if I’d had 750 points to play with, I’d have definitely taken the two goats (and a banner—I broke lot of my standard rules with that list :-P).

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    4. That sounds like a great list, I'd love to see it on the table. Those latter three Dwarves are so unexpectedly dangerous; I ran a Fantasy Fellowship with them in it recently, and they brutalised everything between the Shire and Mordor with a minimum of fuss

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