Featured Post

The Stuff of Legends: The Wolf Pack of Angmar

Good morning gamers, AAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Yep, today we're tackling the Wolf Pack of Angmar Legenda...

Monday, June 27, 2022

In Defense Of: Orophin

Good morning gamers,

With a new sourcebook in hand, we delve into a profile that generated a lot of excitement when his model was first seen in the Defence of the North supplement . . . and by almost all reviewers (Sharbie excluded), we see heavy critique for the ONLY Lorien model released in Defense of the North: Orophin. The long-lost brother of Haldir and Rumil (both of whom have been in the range for ages), Orophin was a welcome inclusion in a book that features Lothlorien as one of the three campaigns (that can be linked into one big campaign) in the Defence of the North supplement. But what is it that holds this guy back? Why is it that people don't seem to like him? Well, let's dive in and see what the critics have to say . . . and why I think this guy has a welcome place in Lothlorien lists.

Why NOT To Take Orophin

Photo Credit: Centaur's copy of Defence of the North - photos of this guy are sparse!

On behalf of all Lothlorien fans, let me begin by saying that the first critique of this guy is that he doesn't have a mount option. This isn't new for named Lothlorien heroes - apparently none of them get horses. If you're used to playing with the Halls of Thranduil (two of the three named heroes can take mounts) or Rivendell (five named combat-heavy heroes can take mounts), you probably know that high-Fight heroes who are capped at S3-4 REALLY get more mileage out of having a mount (not only for speed, but also in killing power). It's a known problem for Lorien players that named Lothlorien heroes don't get mounts - and I tell you what, it would have been nice to have Orophin be "the mounted named hero guy" - it just would have been nice.

I'm also going to note in passing that Orophin as printed in the book doesn't have Woodland Creature - but I fully expect that to be erratad in the upcoming August FAQ. I'm writing it up - you should write them too. Moving on . . .

By far and away, though, the most common critique of Orophin is that he has Heroic Strength instead of Heroic Strike. For most players, Heroic Strength is almost useless - and when I first reviewed Heroic Strength, I thought it was pretty worthless too. Strike gives a F6 Elf with an Elven-made weapon the ability to contest if not dominate over a bigger hero if they get a 6-high - and since only Celeborn and Haldir have Strike in Lothlorien, it would have been nice to have a third guy who had it (especially since all three named heroes in the Halls of Thranduil have Strike and SIX named heroes in Rivendell have Strike - though Gil-Galad limits your access to the Twins if you take him).

Orophin's access to Heroic Strength is further critiqued because his brother, Rumil, has Heroic Defense - and Orophin doesn't have Heroic Defense. If you don't have Strike, Defense is the next most useful specialized Fight Phase Heroic Action - it turns your F6 Elf into a very difficult target to kill (and can keep some heroes from wanting anything to do with you). Heroic Strength has its uses, but being wounded on natural 6s instead of whatever you'd normally be wounded on is more often a handy add (most monsters and mounted heroes with lances/two-handed weapons go from wounding this guy on 3s or 4s to wounding him on 6s without the help of Might or wounding bonuses). 

While we're harping on Heroic Strength, Orophin could have also had Heroic March - Galadhrim Captains have their niche in pure Lothlorien lists as "the only mounted heroes" (recall that named Lothlorien heroes can't take mounts) and "the armored Heroic March guys" (to distinguish them for Wood Elf Captains). Orophin would certainly be better if he had Heroic March and the fact that he doesn't have a horse would still give a place to the Galadhrim Captain (oh yeah, did I mention none of the named Lorien heroes have a mount option?). March would be good, Strike would be good, Defense would be good, but no, we got Heroic Strength. Yaye us . . .

One final critique of Orophin has to do with alliance options: one of the more common allies added to Lothlorien by competitive players is Boromir of Gondor. For 110pts, you can get a 6-Might hero who has Heroic March, Heroic Strike, AND Heroic Defense on a horse - oh, and he's F6/S4/3A (just like Orophin) with the ability to auto-win fights when he's outnumbered by opponents who can't pass Courage tests. Yes, for only 15pts more than a maxed-out Galadhrim Captain, he's CRAZY good (albeit a bit fragile and no threat at range). Compared to Orophin (who is 25pts cheaper), they're pretty similar:


Faster, an extra Wound instead of a Fate point (could make a difference), 3 extra Might points, the Horn of Gondor, and the option to call Heroic Strength AND Heroic Strike/Defense/March, I mean, this guy is really where it's at. Sure, he can't lead troops, but if you've got Galadriel and one other hero, you may not have enough warriors to fill out their warrior slots as it is.

So, is this a cool new Forgeworld model that bites the dust? I don't think so - and despite the anti-hype about this guy, I really like him (I go back and forth about when to buy this guy even as I write this). Let's see what he has going for him.

Why TO Take Orophin

The lack of mount options for Lothlorien named heroes aside (#MESBGTravesty), Orophin can make up for not having a mount in a niche way thanks to his Whirl of Blades special rule. This rule requires a little (but easy) record-keeping: for each natural 6 he rolls in his dueling roll, he gets double-dice when it comes to his wounding roll (which is a poor man's version of the wounding element of the Knock Down rule that mounted heroes get). With 3 Attacks, Orophin has a 40% chance of getting a 6-high naturally - which means 40% of the time, he'll get +1 wounding dice against someone (which is great). While this doesn't look great, he can have a 50% chance of getting at least one natural 6 if he's within range of a banner (which he always should be).

Not having Heroic Strike, Heroic Defense, and Heroic March is a bit of a pain, but the way I see it, I think it gives him a very clear purpose: he's your Heroic Move hero. If you've played Lothlorien, you probably don't like calling Heroic Moves with Galadriel (you'll often channel Blinding Light and probably want the rest to boost important casts or call Heroic Defense to stay alive), you definitely don't want to call Heroic Moves with Celeborn, Haldir, or Rumil (it comes at the expense of Heroic Strikes/Defenses), and your Captains may be a bit tapped out if they needed to call a Heroic March or two. Heroes like Mauhur (2 Might), Forlong the Fat (3 Might), and Grimbold (3 Might) are great heroes who can't Strike - but because so many heroes you bring with them can Strike, they slot into that ever-necessary second role: the guys who call Heroic Moves. Orophin has 3 Might and no specialized heroic actions that he's likely to need to use - so he calls the Heroic Moves.

But I'm going to dwell on the Heroic Strike thing for a minute: lots of players like Heroic Strike because it can help you automatically win fights. This is true and feels really good for both new players and veteran players alike. But calling Heroic Strike doesn't guarantee you the higher Fight Value - and if both players are calling a Strike, it's a big bit of a gamble (see both Rythbyrt's five-part series on Heroic Strike and my article on wasting Might points for more info). Orophin is "only Defense 6" with "only 2 Wounds/1 Fate" - he's the kind of hero you don't WANT to be challenging big heroes - leave that to his D7 brother Rumil and his D7 lord Celeborn instead (both of whom can call Heroic Defense and one of whom can call Heroic Strike if that's more up your alley).

Instead, Orophin's F6 and Elven-made weapons are enough to give most warriors in the game a run for their money - and with a spear-supporter (or potentially 1-2 pike supporters), he has a high likelihood of winning the fight and killing stuff. Oh, and if he's supported by 1-2 Guards of the Galadhrim Court, the supporting models make his F6 superfluous, so he's free to Feint down D3 Fight with absolutely no negative impact (check out my recent article on special strikes for more on this).

While I think Boromir of Gondor is a pretty good alternative to Orophin, the two don't have to be mutually exclusive (as we'll see at the end of the article). If we compare most heroes to Boromir, we'll find that he's a bargain. But compared to the other 3 Attack Elf heroes, Orophin actually comes out alright:


There are only eight base 3 Attack Elf models in the game (ten if you count the Twins - but they can't have base 3 Attacks if they're mounted) and as you can see, Orophin is the cheapest of the bunch (can be tied in points with Tauriel) and is less than or equal to half the cost of a fully-maxed out Thranduil, Gil-Galad, Elrond, and Glorfindel (and they are often maxed-out or nearly maxed out). What you'll find is that most of the heroes in the list are paying for added resilience - NOT added offensive damage. Yes, some will out-kill Orophin, but it won't be by much and it will come at double his cost (so they'd better be better at killing things). Let's walk through the list a bit and see what you're getting extra from these guys:
  • Tauriel is 5pts more with an Elf bow (worth at least 5pts in most scenarios) and she's got -1 Defense, but +1 Will, +2 Fate, the Blade Mistress special rule that give her bonus attacks, Stalk Unseen (which Orophin can't get, even though both his brothers can . . . odd), and Heroic Strike. Tauriel is probably the best Elf to compare against Orophin (the Twins would stack up pretty well too but they fill a MUCH different role than he does) and while he can increase his wounding dice count only, she can increase both her wounding dice AND her dueling dice. Pretty wicked - and I kind of wish Orophin had gotten Knife Fighters instead of Whirl of Blades . . .
  • Galadriel, Lady of Light is our next cheapest model and she loses 3 Defense points (which is huge - at least one and maybe two pips easier for most models to wound) and makes up for it by having +1 Courage, +1 Wound, +5 Will and a free Will point with a flexible array of magical powers, +2 rerollable Fate points, Terror, a mini-Harbinger-of-Evil bubble, and Heroic Strike. For +45pts, she's got a lot going for her, but most of these things are resilience-related abilities - outside of potentially Banishment, her damage output will be about the same if not worse (and the inability to lead troops and the need to ally her into your list with another Hero of Valor/Legend from the White Council will count against her). The fact that we didn't get a shape-shifting Galadriel-with-Lothlorien Legendary Legion in this supplement still bothers me . . .
  • Celeborn is our next cheapest point of comparison and at 150pts max, he's got similar boosts to Galadriel (+1 Defense, +1 Courage, +1 Wound, +2 Will and the ability to cast a few spells, +2 Fate, the Lord of the West rule, and Heroic Strike/Defense) - which is probably worth 50-60pts . . . but Celeborn costs over 60pts more than Orophin and besides Lord of the West (which is better than Whirl of Blades most of the time), isn't going to increase his damage output over Orophin. Again, you're paying for resilience and tricks, but as far as firepower goes, you can get most of what you get from Celeborn with Orophin.
  • Glorfindel is our next guy, and despite having +1 Fight Value (and Heroic Strike), +1 Defense (and immunity to brutal power attacks), +1 Wound/+2 Fate, +1 Courage/+2 Will, Fortify Spirit (instead of Resistant to Magic), a fast horse, Lord of the West, and Heroic Strike, it's only that Lord of the West, mount, and +1 Fight Value/Heroic Strike that make him better at fighting than Orophin (and maybe his two-handed weapon if you want the dueling penalty). For the same cost as Orophin and another 85pt hero (like Rumil or Haldir), I'm not sure Glorfindel is getting you that much more than you get from Orophin.
  • Going up a few more points, we have Gil-Galad, who is often touted as the nastiest of the Elven lords you can face - with +3 Fight Value, a free +1 To Wound from Aiglos, +2 Defense, +1 Wound, +1 Courage, +2 Will, a mount, Lord of the West, Blood and Glory (for getting that Might back), and Heroic Strike/Defense (though with F9, you wonder how often you need to call Strike). A guy like Orophin doesn't want to run into Gil-Galad, but if both are smashing through troops . . . well, Orophin won't be that far behind. Yes, Gil-Galad wounds most warriors on 4s or 3s and knocks them down, but Orophin will be wounding at about the same level - and for less than half Gil-Galad's cost, the damage that Orophin will do with a Galadhrim Captain fully kitted out (5pts less than Gil-Galad) will probably be about the same.
  • Our penultimate comparison is with Elrond, who has +1 Defense, +1 Wound, +1 Courage, +2 Will with spells he can cast, +2 rerollable Fate points, +1 To Wound against Spirit models, a mount, Foresight points (I never get more than 2, but hopefully your luck is better than mine), Terror, Lord of the West, and Heroic Strike/Defense . . . and unless you choose to two-hand or are fighting Spirit models, chances are good you're doing about as much damage as Orophin. 
  • Our final profile is Thranduil, who when fully decked out has +1 Fight Value, an Elf Bow with a 2+ shoot value, +1 Attack (more if on the charge or on foot and fighting more than one guy), +2 Will, +2 Fate, the Circlet of Kings, Stalk Unseen (if he's not mounted), bonus Strength when mounted and on the charge (with the Elk), Terror (if Aura of Dismay is up), and Heroic Strike. This is all good stuff, but again, for an extra 105pts, you can almost get Orophin AND Boromir of Gondor for the same cost as this guy . . . and I'm not sure he's doing as much for you as two F6/3A heroes (one of which can be mounted).
I don't expect most of you to be convinced that Orophin is worth comparing to these guys, but as a long-time advocate of Mauhur as a troop killer (even though my Mauhur is a diva and never seems to do his job), I think Orophin slots into the same role - good at killing troops, so-so at fighting mid-level heroes, gonna suffer against big heroes. In Lothlorien, though, he doesn't NEED to be your guy to take on big heroes - so keep some pikes behind him and a banner nearby and you can cut through the enemy with ease!

Making It Work

We've already talked about some of this, but let's get this out first: you want to back up Orophin with pikes or a spear. Whether it's a F5 Galadhrim Warrior/Wood Elf Warrior or a F6 Guard of the Galadhrim Court, these guys provide an extra die in the fight to make sure Orophin beats guys up (and can even make heroes burn resources to beat his highest roll). If you support him with a F6 Guard of the Galadhrim Court, Feint becomes a go-to option - and rerolling 1s when you might be getting an extra die or two is REALLY nice.

Second, because you don't NEED to get traps with this guy, Orophin can be embedded in your battle line, leaving room for other heroes (like Rumil, Celeborn, or Boromir of Gondor) to work the periphery. An embedded hero in a battle line can break the shieldwall in half - and as we talked about in a previous formations post, this can be REALLY handy if your opponent only has one banner in his army - he'll have to choose which side of the line he's helping. If Orophin is supported by a banner and has pikes supporting the fights nearby, you could punch a really big hole in the line without much difficulty.

Finally (and as we've mentioned a bunch already), make sure Orophin gets that banner - natural 6s are excellent for him, and even if you got a 6 in your initial roll, always reroll a non-6 so you have a chance at MORE dice to wound. I'm not sure that I'd risk calling a Heroic Combat against 2-3 foes with this guy (you can't count on getting extra dice), but if you're "just chewing through troops," he'll be excellent if he's got a banner near him.

Below is a 700-point list that I'm excited to try out - it's got 32 models, 10 Elf bows with Blinding Light, Orophin and Boromir, and a healthy mix of Galadhrim Warriors, Guards of the Galadhrim Court, and a handful of Galadhrim Knights to escort Boromir around. Galdariel is our army leader - those who don't like that could drop her and 2 guys to get Celeborn and upgrade a few spears to Guards of the Galadhrim Court:
  • Galadriel [ARMY LEADER]
    • 5 Galadhrim Warriors with shields
    • 5 Guards of the Galadhrim Court
    • 4 Galadhrim Warriors with Elf bows
    • 3 Galadhrim Warriors with Elf bows and spears
    • 1 Galadhrim Knight with shield and Elf bow 
  • Orophin
    • 4 Galadhrim Warriors with shields
    • 2 Galadhrim Warriors with shields and spears
    • 1 Galadhrim Warrior with shield, spear, and banner
    • 2 Guards of the Galadhrim Court
    • 2 Galadhrim Knights with shields and Elf bows
  • HISTORICAL ALLY: Boromir of Gondor on horse with shield
Upgrading this list to 800pts would probably see Boromir fall out of the picture so we could get a Galadhrim Captain or Rumil/Haldir and 115-125pts worth of warriors (which would give us a mid-40s list - about what you expect from most armies and FAR more than you'd expect from an elite army of Elves). Not taking the Captain would mean we can't March, so positioning would need to be excellent, but otherwise the list would be fun to use. I've also recently questioned the addition of shields in this army, thanks to a plethora of S2/S4 in the meta and the need for Elves to actually kill things. Yes, defending by shielding can help you win fights, but if you aren't killing things, you're only delaying defeat. So . . . consider dropping the shields to get some extra bodies or upgrade more guys to Guards of the Galadhrim Court.

Conclusion

Orophin is finally a profile - and while he's a bit lackluster, I like him. I like him a whole lot. Not jumping at the Forgeworld prices, but I like him a lot. If you like him and found some of this to be helpful (or not - that's fine too), let us know in the comments! In our next post, we revisit an old friend (foe for me): Bert the Troll. If you can't remember what he does, you're not alone - in fact, he's viewed as one of the WORST Troll heroes in the game (he's just not all that interesting and doesn't have it where it counts). But what does he bring to the table? And is he the worst? Find out next time - until then, happy hobbying!

12 comments:

  1. <3-attack elf heroes> is a bit of a weird comparison class, precisely because, with the exception of Tauriel, they're basically all ~150 point monsters, and so fill quite radically different niches. Might be worth comparing to 3A Rohan heroes instead? (Orophin is pretty comparable to Theodred on foot, actually).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You could compare him to guys from Rohan, but nearly all Rohan heroes are mounted and they get dramatically worse if they're dismounted. Theodred on foot is probably +1 Defense, but he's also only F5 and won't be rerolling all failed To Wound rolls.

      Comparing him to Dwarf heroes who can't take mounts would give you a gap in the Defense category (usually 2-3pts), but you'd have the Elven-made weapon boost when fighting a F6 foe. For the same cost as a bunch of the Erebor Reclaimed heavy hitters, you won't be doing the same damage, but you'd be better than others.

      Delete
  2. I definitely agree with this: he's not an amazing character, but he fits in really well as a replacement for either of his brothers. It's hard to argue that he's better value than Tauriel, but he's really equivalent to the options Lothlorien can bring natively. I'd argue most of those options are themselves on the weaker side, but that's hardly Orophin's fault

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've run Haldir for over 10yrs (and love his Expert Shot), but you don't want him to be overwhelmed. Orophin is less worried about that - and if you can manage his fights, he can be a pain to deal with.

      Delete
  3. Malbeth the ForceshieldJune 28, 2022 at 5:49 PM

    1) I find him lackluster becaue of that Heroic Strenght being the only skill in his possession and no defense mechanism of any sort avialble. I can probably understand designers' way of thinking: "he'll be fragile but focuesd on dealing damage, Whirl of Blades will work great with HS strenght increase" etc. Ok, but lack of heroic Strike or Defence (or even D7) is a big issue. I'd even be uncomfortable going vs F4 model with strike and F5 is just a lost cause.
    2) On the other hand he can potentially make 6 strikes when fighting normally while vs trapped he can go up to 12 (???) which is insane. And he can buff it with Strenght and have Enchanted Blades casted on him.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. His Whirl of Blades rule says the wounding dice don't double again if the enemy is trapped, so he maxes out at 6 dice, not 12 dice. Enchanted Blades would help out for sure.

      I don't see this guy as needing Strike or Defense if he's fighting warriors or someone who has been Immobilized - if he does run into someone who can Strike, yes, he's in trouble. :-)

      Delete
  4. The ability to shield with his swords would really help Orophin shine. Yeah, something simillar to what Easterling Dragon Knights have. As it is, he's a bit underwhelming especially compared to other characters in this book.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Shielding could be good, but it would mean giving up your wounding potential (and makes you more comparable to Rumil). Having it as a ditch effort option would be good though.

      Delete
  5. I feel like he's a victim of designers trying to make something unique and kinda failing in this regard (though the model is awesome). Thing is that he doesn't really bring anything into Lothlórien that was not already there. In my book Orophin is a wasted opportunity, he could have been made into "synergy" hero that gives some buffs to warriors, or a big beater that Lothlórien list would kinda benefit from. I mean, would it hurt if Elves had someone burly/mastercrafted who can dish out the hurt? I know Gil Galad exists but it's Gil Galad.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think if he had Knife Fighter, he'd be great - a more armored, less Fate-endowed Tauriel. Getting extra wounding dice here and there is better than Knife Fighter in a battle line, but if he operates on his own, he's not going to be as good as he could be.

      Delete
  6. Im excited to try the list out! The only thing I'm waiting to order is a mounted Boromir, and that shouldn't be too long now. How have you fared with this list?
    Alongside some other, easy to get stuff (Fellowship, Vanquishers of Necromancer) this list and a big Minis Tirith selection is going to be my first forays into the hobby in over a decade. Very pumped to get back into it, enjoy your posts very much and I always find myself returning back to your podcast every few months!
    P.S how did the 800pt Tournament go? The one back in April(?)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've been playing with a lot of the new Legions, but need to get more time in with Orophin soon! Glad you're back in the hobby - it's a good time for MESBG. As for the April tournament, we're still working on getting the podcast review for it - it was a lot of fun though. :-)

      Delete