Good morning gamers,
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| Photo Credit: Warhammer Community |
A new supplement has finally made its way across the pond and into our hands here at TMAT and as I madly update my army builder spreadsheet to accommodate the new profiles and Legions, I have discovered that there are some really good things about this supplement and some disappointments.
Love It: Three Joinable Campaigns
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| Photo Credit: Warhammer Community My campaign is the longest - because everyone loves me! |
I know, most of us are buying these sourcebooks for the Matched Play content, but scenario play is a nice alternative way to play the game (keeping things fresh). In all of the other sourcebooks to date, you can pick-and-choose scenarios to play, but if you want to play through "the whole thing," you have to play 13-28 scenarios (depending on the sourcebook) to "finish the campaign." If you and a friend want to do it together, that's a long commitment!
In Defence of the North, there are three campaigns (one for Erebor, one for Mirkwood, and one for Lothlorien) that CAN be joined together into one long thing, but can also be played as three separate campaigns - which is good if you just want to focus on one theatre of the war. While close to half the scenarios are focused on Erebor/Dale, you get a nice compact set of scenarios in Mirkwood and Lothlorien that you could play over a long day or maybe a month of weekends. This is quite manageable and a welcome change for those of us who have actually tried to get through a campaign!
Don't Love It: Really Weird Force Compositions in Scenarios
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| Photo Credit: Warhammer Community Because, when you're making a list, why not have 33% spears and 17% two-handed weapons . . . |
This is normal for scenario play, but the forces used in the scenarios tend to mirror what's in the box sets. Yep, GW is trying to sell their stuff, but why would I want only 4 Easterling Pikes out of 20 Easterlings total? Come on guys - you know this isn't a good idea. Here are some examples of odd force constructions:
- In all of the Easterling-oriented scenarios, you get 21-31 Easterling Warriors that you can make with 1-1.5 boxes (which means you get 8-12 bowmen, 8-12 shield guys, and 4-6 pikemen) plus a banner guy. In most of those scenarios, you get 12-18 Black Dragons, split 50/50 between shields and pikes. Ultimately, this means you have ~1/3 of your army with pikes, which is just not the ratio of pikes-to-not-pikes that you want. One thing I will note positively: while the Easterling Warriors box has more than 33% of the warriors carrying bows, the addition of the Black Dragons actually brings the forces back into a normal bow limit (though bow limit is not a thing in scenario play).
- In two of the seven Dale-oriented scenarios, you get a Warrior of Dale with a war horn - and no other gear. I get that there's a new command blister with the guy, but come on - who wants a D4 Warrior of Dale with just a war horn? What's he doing all game, just standing around?!?!?!?
- In five of the seven Dwarf-oriented scenarios, you get a 2:1:1 ratio of Iron Hills Dwarves with spears/shields, mattocks, and crossbows. Not only is this a really small number of crossbows (3-6), but you also get an overwhelmingly high number of mattocks . . . when we'd probably all just prefer to have more spearmen (or just guys with shields . . . come on, that's a thing, despite there being NO models made for them).
Love It: A Fleshed Out Dale Faction
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| Photo Credit: Warhammer Community Two new heroes, two new warrior choices (if you take the all-Dale Legion, that is) . . . |
Dale used to be one of the most profile-restricted factions in the game (2 hero profiles, 1 warrior profile) and now they have a nice suite of options (no cavalry, but they do have heavy infantry, lighter infantry with almost all the basic gear options, a siege weapon choice if you run one of the Legendary Legions - maybe it'll make its way into the normal list after an errata - and your choice of 1-2 named heroes to go with your generic Captains). On behalf of factions like Numenor and Arnor, we appreciate what GW has done with the Dale list (now could you please revisit the Ruin of Arnor sourcebook and create a Last Alliance sourcebook and flesh out the other factions of men?).
Giving Dale both a generic list that can play in either the Armies of the Hobbit or Armies of the Lord of the Rings era is great for their alliance options (though it's still pretty tight if you think you need your army bonus) and giving them not one but two Legendary Legions provides some interesting ways to construct the army, depending on what you value. Thanks, GW team, Dale fans (old and new) everywhere love you.
Don't Love It: Uninteresting Appendices
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| Photo Credit: Warhammer Community Why yes, I made it into the Defence of the North supplement too . . . |
I'll admit, with great Appendices in both the Scouring of the Shire and War in Rohan supplements, I was really excited when I saw that there would be Appendices for the Defence of the North book too. And it turns out that despite excellent content (for both scenario play and matched play) in these preceding sourcebooks, the content we got in the Appendices for this book is just reprinted scenarios that cover the lifespan of Dale. Yeah . . . kind of a let-down, honestly. We'll cover this a bit later in more detail, but I feel like the Army of Dale Legendary Legion should have been migrated to the Appendices of the Defence of the North book (akin to the Helm's Guard Legendary Legion) with another Legion taking its place, but we're getting ahead of ourselves . . .
Love It: Modification of the Erebor Reclaimed Army Bonus
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| Photo Credit: Warhammer Community How do you like me now? |
We all saw the "Old Dain" profile (my take back in August 2021 can be found here) and said, "Well, I guess you wouldn't want to run this guy with his army bonus, since Thorin has to be in your army in order for anyone to benefit from it." When originally released in the Armies of the Hobbit book, the Erebor Reclaimed army bonus was kind of lack-luster, since the Iron Hills Dwarves in the list didn't update their keyword from "Iron Hills" to "Erebor" (no banner bonus for them - just for the Champions of Erebor that you brought). Defence of the North changed all that, with "Old Dain" counting as a 6" banner for all Erebor Dwarves - and all of the Iron Hills stuff changing their keywords (at last) to "Erebor" if he's in the army. Yep, like his great-uncle Thror in the Army of Thror, Old Dain has reached the auto-include state in this army (if you're running War-of-the-Ring-era Erebor Reclaimed, that is).
Don't Love It: Didn't Flesh Out The Erebor Reclaimed Warrior List
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| Photo Credit: ForgeWorld And in all those years we were sitting in that mountain, we never thought to build some of these? |
Okay, so the Dwarves of the Iron Hills were renowned warriors during the Hobbit era - so much so that an army of Men and Elves didn't look happy when the Dwarves showed up outnumbered and after marching day and night to get there. These guys in the films (and in the Armies of the Hobbit book) have amazing ballistas and chariots that help them do TONS of damage. The Erebor Reclaimed list in the Armies of the Hobbit book was originally intended to cover the straggling survivors who fight alongside Thorin after their siege weapons were abandoned and their chariots were up-ended by Ogres (which can't happen in the game, by the way).
But what I fail to see is how, after fifty years of living in the Lonely Mountain, it never occurred to Dain to build siege weapons or chariots . . . at all. I mean, the list is STILL just Goat Riders (who are good) and Iron Hills Dwarves (who are also good). Whether you ally with Dale historically or take the "Erebor United" Legendary Legion, you can't get siege weapons (because the Windlance isn't in the generic list or that Legion - at least not until they errata it) and you can't get chariots. Why, guys, why? Personally I'd modify the profile for Thorin III (to make him more relevant) to allow you to bring Iron Hills Ballistas in your list to reflect the development of the defenses of Erebor during the years leading up to the War of the Ring. I could even be convinced that Dwalin and three of the surviving champs could pay 175pts to ride a chariot in this list. Just saying . . .
Love It: New Assault On Lothlorien Legendary Legion
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| Photo Credit: Warhammer Community I'M BACK (in the webstore)!!!!! |
You've heard me say this before and I'll say it again: I got started playing the game with the Mines of Moria starter set back in 2010 and I LOVE my Goblin archers (even though they're garbage and without a doubt the worst archers in the game). ALL of that changes with the Assault On Lothlorien Legendary Legion. First, we get to fight at night ALL the time (which is cool and thanks to the Cave Dweller special rule on our Goblins means we can shoot 18" while everyone else can shoot only 12" away, and we get +1 To Wound with our shooting attacks while everyone else doesn't get it against our Goblin models).
The list also has lots of magic (which I love), but of the shaman variety - Druzhag and Ashrak weren't strangers to the competitive scene before, but you used them when you wanted to "do the spider thing", not necessarily in competitive builds outside of that. Bring on a new list where they (and their Mordor compadre Muzgur) are your only named heroes and you're looking for ways to augment the heck out of creatures in your army while relying on your Goblins to hold the line (oh, and you can have some Orcs too . . . don't forget those guys). Usually, these guys are only active for a few turns, but the reroll on casting that they get makes them more reliable on one die and so they can keep the spells flowing longer.
Finally, as someone who LOVES the Balrog, I had basically sworn off Druzhag (who I love) because there was no reason I'd run Moria without running the Balrog Legion - no banner VPs if you run them pure, you can break if you don't horde out enough or just get chopped to bits, and your power heroes are just a bit underwhelming if you don't run the Balrog (the Dragon excluded, Centaur). But NOW you can run Druzhag while he super-charges a Wild Warg Chieftain and you rely on Bat Swarms and/or Warg Marauders to handle your objectives while you POUND the enemy with archery. I'm in love with this Legion, can you tell?
Don't Love It: Basically Every Other Legendary Legion
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| Photo Credit: Warhammer Community We could have been awesome . . . but there's a lot of railroading going on in this Legion . . . |
Yeah, the Lothlorien Legion is the last one in the book - and the ones before it are kinda meh (one exception, which we'll cover later). Let's see why:
- The Army of Dale: this is War of the Ring Dale with Windlances and Sworn Protector (Brand). And that's it. Now competitive players like Rob from the Unexpected Podcast team will tell you that they like simplicity, but "just getting auto-passing courage tests" is kind of like the Men of the West Legion and a portion of what makes Theodred's Guard good . . . and it's just not that exciting.
- The Defenders of Erebor: free Shieldbearer-like Heroic Combats for the four new named heroes if their age-appropriate counterpart is fighting (who also become banners for your army)? That looks really good - on paper. Since you have to take at least one named hero from Dale (Bard or Brand) and at least one named hero from Erebor (Dain, Thorin, or one of the six surviving and mobile Champions of Erebor), if you choose to take Bard (marginally cheaper with access to +1 To Wound), you have to take Thorin to get the free Heroic Combats. If you take Brand (+3 warrior slots and trades +1 Wound for -1 Fate), you are similarly railroaded into taking Dain (who I like more than Thorin on a number of levels) - and who gets a shorter banner radius than if you had just allied historically with Dale. Taking a Champ gets you neither banners nor free Heroic Combats. I feel like the Champs were a bit of a missed opportunity for this Legion - I would have done something like this (these may be too much without increasing their costs by +5 or +10pts, but let's get the discussion going, shall we?):
- All models with "Champion of Erebor" in their name gain the Venerable special rule (see Dain Ironfoot, King Under the Mountain);
- All models with the Sworn Protector (Thorin Oakenshield, King Under the Mountain) special rule exchange it for the Sworn Protector (Dain Ironfoot, King Under the Mountain) special rule;
- Bifur the Dwarf, Champion of Erebor begins the game with the axe-blade from his Embedded Axe-Blade rule removed;
- Gloin the Dwarf, Champion of Erebor rerolls 1s and 2s To Wound for his A Warrior Born special rule (instead of just 1s To Wound);
- Dwalin the Dwarf, Champion of Erebor may reroll a die during a dueling roll;
- Nori the Dwarf, Champion of Erebor exchanges his mace for a hand-and-a-half mace;
- Dori the Dwarf, Champion of Erebor gains +1 Might; and
- Any friendly model within 3" of Bofur the Dwarf, Champion of Erebor gains the Resistant to Magic special rule.
- The Host of the Dragon Emperor: This army loses access to Khamul and Amdur, retains its normal army bonus, and gets free upgrades to Black Dragons (awesome) in the Dragon Emperor's warband (awesome) and in Dragon Knight warbands (awesome) but NOT in Rutabi's warband (even though her warband is big enough to make a pike block and she's the general of the Black Dragons) or in Captain warbands (even though they have enough room for a pike block). Your heroes also get a reroll on their dueling rolls, which gives you an interesting conundrum about your hero to warrior ratio . . . and that's it guys. Okay, free boosts in some warbands (max of 36pts of savings in the Dragon Emperor's warband, potentially up to 12pts per Dragon Knight that you can get in savings as well) and our heroes roll an extra die . . . I guess that's something . . .
- The Fell Beings of Mirkwood: I was really hyped about this Legion getting the Spider Queen with Razgush . . . and then Evan from the Unexpected Podcast team reminded me that you could just ally conveniently and get everything in this list AND Morannons AND the Shadow Lord. Yes, your infantry don't get Woodland Creature (spiders/bats don't care), your creatures don't get Hatred (Elf) (but your Orc Captains, Orc Warriors, and Warg Riders do), and Razgush doesn't become F6 when fighting Elves (but he ignores Elven-made and has bats) . . . yeah, you can live with what you lose . . .
Love It: New Orophin Model
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| Photo Credit: Against All Odds MESBG |
I would gush about Orophin here, but since almost everyone who has reviewed him has been unwelcoming, he's actually the subject of this coming Monday's In Defense Of article - so I won't spoil anything here. Needless to say, despite my initial critique of the model, I think he's good for Lothlorien players everywhere. Oh, and many thanks to Sharbie for having this photo - I couldn't find it anywhere else - check out his article in the URL link for the photo above for his review of Defence of the North, which is (as always) awesome and on point.
Don't Love It: No Lothlorien Legendary Legion
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| Photo Credit: Warhammer Community They made me hard to ally . . . and then they didn't give me a Legion? |
I know I wasn't the only person with his hopes up for a Lothlorien Legendary Legion where we could finally take Galadriel, Lady of Light with our army bonus . . . and despite having not one but two theatres of the War in the North being fought by Elf armies, Dale got two Legions and the Elves cumulatively got . . . none. And one new profile. Would I have loved a Lothlorien Legendary Legion? Clearly. Would I have loved a Legolas-free Halls of Thranduil Legion that made Mirkwood Captains relevant? Yes. Did we get either of those? No . . . no we didn't . . .
Bonus Love It: The Beornings
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| Photo Credit: Warhammer Community |
I feel like I have come down hard on the book, so I'm writing a bonus thing I like about Defence of the North so we can end on a high note: let's talk about the Beorning Legion. The Guardians of the Carrock were an army list with points but no profiles back in the Legions of Middle-Earth days (back when I got started). For over ten years, I dismissed the army as "future-proofing" and now the future is here! While I am not convinced that D4 Beornings can survive a world with Assault Upon Helm's Deep Legendary Legions or matches against massive hordes of Goblins or big blocks of Elves with Blinding Light, I am glad that they exist and have a Legion where both Beorn and Grimbeorn can shift at will and get Monstrous Charge. This was a great addition - thanks, GW!
Conclusion
If you agree or disagree with my takes here, let me know in the comments below! We're busily testing everything from the book so we can do reviews on them, so expect to see more Defence of the North content coming out soon. Until next time, happy hobbying!
Repeat after me GW : "We. want. Heavy armor / sword Galadriel" The old model is great (even though I don't like the official color scheme) and it's far past time we get a Lady in her fighting glory.
ReplyDeleteAnyway I like that they found some incentives to get us to play "without Balrog". He's awesome and all, but he's such a centerpiece that I almost never fight a non-Balrog Moria. But as I told my friend to read the last article on defense if Dragon, that might change
DeleteYeah, I love the Balrog too - and it's hard NOT to run the Legion unless you want access to Bat Swarms and Warg Marauders (both of which are really useful and absent from the Balrog Legion). Now that there's a non-Blackshield Legion that also gives you Orcs and creatures, I think there will be a resurrection of spider-based Moria stuff for a while - we'll see where it goes. :)
DeleteNice article! I'm working on my Dale army, and hope to try out some of the scenarios out of the DotN book soon!
ReplyDeleteCentaur is working on his too - and is hoping those windlances can be taken with Girion . . .
DeleteA nice article and I agree with it. I play Dale (+ Erebor) since it came out for the first time and I love so much those models. I had great expectations for this supplement and not everything is as good as I hoped but it's OK.
ReplyDeleteAgree pretty strongly with most of this. It feels like a book with a lot of power in it, but not quite as much character as I'd expected. The Erebor LL is the perfect example I think: it's pretty easy to get reroll 1's for everyone and a couple of banners, and that's quite strong really, but it feels very bland. The only flavourful and interesting rule is the Heroic Combats one, but it's so niche it's effectively a ribbon. And yeah, the Champs kind of just exist. Weird.
ReplyDeleteOn the flipside, the Beornings and (especially) Assault on Lothlorien feel like they got so much love. The former probably won't be that strong, but they get enough buffs that they're interesting, and the latter is just wild. It feels like so much of the designer's attention got spent here, and it's a great time, but the rest of the book suffers from the comparison.
Great article as ever!
Thanks mate - it's weird when a Legion (like the Defenders of Erebor) doesn't look as good as a historical alliance (where you could field Dain with Bard, who wouldn't get free heroics in the Legion, but you'd get the 6" banner and the +1 To Wound) . . .
DeleteHow would you modify the profile for Thorin III?
ReplyDeleteI thought about giving him Fearless, 3 Wounds, Defense 9 and +1 to wound but would that be a bit too much?
A Erebor Reclaimed LL would be cool with Erebor Royal Guard with +1 Weaponskill and Bodyguard, Rangers and the other stuff a force at their peak of power would have.
I don't play at tournaments, just against friends but i don't want to bring a "op" army... so yeah don't know about that.
The problem Erebor Reclaimed has always faced is the same thing Mordor and Minas Tirith struggle with: there are a lot of named heroes, it's hard to distinguish models from each other. War of the Ring Erebor Reclaimed loses four mounted heroes (Thorin, Kili, Fili, Dain) and loses some cheaper, tactical heroes (Balin, Oin, Ori, Bombur). In their place, they're gifted two named heroes - but they still have to compete with some of the best slayer champs (Dwalin, Gloin, Dori, and Nori) and the best tactical champ (Bifur). I don't think there's anything that you could do to Thorin III's profile to make him better than these guys without duplicating what someone else does - so I think he should allow you to get you ballistas . . .
DeleteI have a question about the "Sworn Protector" rule in The Army of Dale legendary legion. Does King Brand himself also benefit from it, i.e., pass all courage tests? He does have the "Dale" keyword. Since he has the keyword "Dale," a strict reading of the Sworn Protector rule appears to indicate he would get Sworn Protector. But the spirit of the rule seems to indicate he would not; how do you "protect" yourself.
ReplyDeleteHe does - just like Theodred does in his Legion!
DeleteI'm late to the party, but I wanted to share my feelings about the Host of the Dragon Emperor legendary legion, because I disagree strongly. I think what they've done is very clever - by keeping the legion-specific buffs very lean, and by putting the weight of buffs on to the Emperor himself, they've kept every flavour of Easterlings relevant and roughly on level pegging.
ReplyDeleteThe Emperor has a ton of special rules, and it would have been perfectly feasible to take some of those and put them in to the Legion instead, which would have addressed your complaint - but in doing so, they'd probably invalidate 'vanilla' Easterlings, as well as Easterlings & allies lists.
it might feel like the Legion doesn't give you new toys, but on aggregate, the Easterlings have got TONS - I think your issue is more just with how they're packaged.
I'm actually working on my review of the Host of the Dragon Emperor now - you're right, there is a reason to play normal Easterlings and the Legion. And that's a good thing. My complaint here is that it doesn't _look_ that exciting on paper. Yes, F5 Easterlings for 8-9pts/model is amazing. Yes, 4-6 dueling dice for your Dragon Knights is great. And yes, they have a lot of tricks - but as you mentioned, you can have most of this normally. Great models added to the range, great that both are viable, but the Legion is kinda eh (not as wow-punchy as other Legions).
DeleteInteresting article. Out of interest, why would players buy this and other supplements for the matched play. My take on them all pretty much is that they introduce a few new heroes and / or units for a one or more factions and beyond that contain mostly scenarios for which you need a gazillion figures. Fine if the ONLY thing you play is MESBG and / or are a total MESBG fan that buys everything, less useful for those for whom MESBG is just one of the games they play (albeit still with a significant amount of $$$ sunk into it even then!).
ReplyDeleteQuite literally the only thing that appeals to me about this is the rules for Razgush and Muzgur but even those I downloaded from the FW site (unless they've changed). I see that Razgush has quite a few restrictions to his own war band in terms of troop types but nothing that stops me taking anything I would normally include in an Orc hero war band (e.g. Mornannon and regular orcs, warg riders etc). I'll pick up the models I think but pass on the book, even more incentive I think to pass on this book than the others, which we also skipped.
Each sourcebook has a lot of scenario stuff - and the profiles can be a big appeal too (if you were an Easterling player, you'd want a copy of the book for sure). That said, the Legendary Legions are available in them too - and those can be really great in Matched Play. Most players who don't care about scenarios see the value in the Legions/new profiles - though I will say that I don't own a copy of this one . . . but Centaur has one (because Easterlings and Dale). :-)
DeleteOne thing I'm a bit confused on, Razgush. I've seen mention in several places that Razgush can only take regular Mordor Orc warriors, not Morannons in his war band? Am I missing something here? The restriction says Orc Warriors. It does not say only Mordor Orc Warriors (unless the restriction in DotN is worded differently to the FW rule download. So, RAW only lists two keywords that apply in this case, Orc and Warriors. We know what the term Warriors means and then looking up the keyword Orc, do Mordor Orcs have it, yes. Do Morannons have it, yes. So where are people getting the idea that Morannons cannot be included in his Warband? Maybe I've got it wrong but I'm wondering if this is people reading something into a restriction that isn't there? When looking to comply with restrictions, unless the restriction is UNIT specific (e.g. in this case SPECIFICALLY says may only include Mordor Orc Warriors) I only look at the Keywords and in this case it applies to Mordor and Morannon Orcs.
ReplyDeleteSince the words aren't bolded, it's not a keyword thing for "Orc Warriors" - it's the Orc Warrior profile found in the Barad-Dur army list on p. 119 of the Armies of the Lord of the Rings that is included in the Mordor army list (p. 134). The same thing applies to The Halls of Thranduil army bonus where "Mirkwood Elves" get+1 To Wound near Thranduil . . . they really shouldn't have such synonymous terms in profile names. :-/
DeleteAha! Brain clicks! Thank you. I was flicking back and forth between only the profiles and looking at their keywords, I took the actual name of the type of Orc as merely being descriptive. Totally overlooked the need to look at the "This army may contain" boxes which, as you rightly say DOES distinguish between the two and indeed in Mordor actually lists Orc Warriors and Morannon Orcs.
DeleteGlad this clicked before I hit BUY at Forgeworld. Given I only play Mordor and Isengard, and given the points cost for Razgush (and the fact that his Hatred (Elf) also only affects Orcs and not Morranons), I don't really see any point in taking him in a Mordor list, UNLESS you want the Bat Swarms and Spiders, when you can take Shagrat with Morannons. While the Muzgur model is nice I can probably proxy my Orc or Morannon Shaman if I ever need to use him. Pity, the Razgush model is cool, but he's hardly a filler hero at 110 points!
I think I generally agree on taking Shagrat over Razgush (cheaper, more punch, probably not your army leader, can take anything in his warband), though I will note that taking Bat Swarms is great (as you say) as are Fell Wargs (which are cheaper fast units than Warg Riders and can charge things they can't see when they start their move, so they can charge from behind cover). I think if you wanted to take some of the cheap F5 heroes with Razgush (Gorbag if he's charged 2 guys, Goroth, maybe also Shagrat), you could get 2 Bat Swarms, 3 Fell Wargs, and 10 Orcs in his warband have a pretty good swing at most things.
DeleteGood points, I'll have to check out Bat Swarms as I never like to be "that guy" that is taking some cheesy unit (which for some reason I have in my head that Bat swarms are LOL). Good point on the Fell Wargs too. I have Wargs that I use for my Warg Riders in they get thrown and the Wargs stick around, if not taking riders I could easily use them as Fell Wargs. Maybe I'll get him after all, and Muzgur does look cool.
DeleteRecently screwed up with FW as I intended to order Razgush and the Goroth blisters. What I ordered was Goroth and Gothmog's Enforcer (which I think I originally intended to buy then changed my mind but didn't change the basket!!!). Talk about furious! Reading more I think the Enforcer and Guritz might have their uses so I won't send them back. Did make me think though whether Razgush was still worth it but in light of your comments I think he is. Just double check the bloody basket next time!! LOL
Guritz is one of Mordor's better March heroes . . . I am not convinced that the Enforcer has much of a place though (for 60pts, there are just better options).
DeleteYeah, agreed, 60 points for a free Move (and also needs to be within 3"!) for Gothmog is pushing it well into the realms of 'niche', especially when a Morannon captain is only 55 points with S5. I will more likely put him on the table just because I have the figure, most likely though I will probably proxy him for a Morannon captain if I ever need 2. Guritz is better as you say, pity the model is a bit meh LOL.
Delete