Is There Such A Thing As A Bad Legendary Legion?

Good morning gamers,

I will begin by acknowledging the click-bait title - I write articles on the internet, I'm allowed. :-)

Legendary Legions have been reviewed recently by Ali King on the GBHL and he categorized them out in broad terms as "the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly." As a quick summary (though you should read the article - its focus is actually on the impact and value of theme in Matched Play and much larger than just the Good/Bad/Ugly classification of Legions), there are Legions that give you an incentive to play a themed list that isn't oppressive ("good" Legions), Legions that don't give you much of a reason to take them over their normal alliances ("bad" Legions), and Legions that add oppressive rules that can create a negative game experience ("ugly" Legions).

I think Ali wrote a REALLY good article and did a great job of categorizing the Legions, but while much time was dedicated to the Legions that are "ugly" (among the other topics), I kept coming back to the thought that some Legions are bad. Ali makes the case (and on some level I think he's right) that there are Legions that just aren't as good as their "normal" army lists - but I've spent a lot of time on this blog writing about what makes certain Legions better than they first appear. So, let's take a look at some Legions that are probably classified as "bad" Legions and see what they have to offer.

Identifying Bad Legions

There are some Legions that are pretty easy to call "good" - they give thematic benefits to an army that make them better than a normal alliance but aren't oppressive in their impact. According to Ali, this list would include:

• The Breaking of the Fellowship (only 8 models and no armor or horses can be taken, but you get banners, magic resistance, and Elven cloaks/potential Blinding Light to negate archery);
• The Defenders of Helm's Deep (no Rohan cavalry, but your infantry can fight in ranks and you can get heroes like Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and Haldir along with Galadhrim Warriors to augment a small selection of Rohan heroes);
• The Army of Dunland (no Uruks, Saruman, or Warg Riders, but added rules that increase the damage of the Dunland models in the list and an augment to their banners to help them win fights - critical since you lost most of your supporting model options); and
• Cirith Ungol (VERY reduced model selection, but added boosts to both the named heroes and the warriors in the list to make them more dangerous).

I do think that the Defenders of Helm's Deep could give you a negative play experience with their archery at nearly any points level, but it won't be as bad as some other Legions. The "ugly" lists get great buffs too, but their boosts tend to focus on over-emphasizing one part of the game and can lead to a negative play experience for a player that isn't ready to deal with it. This, according to Ali, includes the following Legions:

• The Riders of Theoden (small reduction of heroes and warriors, free heroic actions for a round to get more out of your heroes - and certainly more egregious back when Gamling was able to restore Might to all friendly Rohan heroes near him every turn);
• The Rangers of Ithilien (reduction in hero and warrior options, but allowing up to 45 Rangers of Gondor to be fielded without counting towards your bow limit - though there is the potential for this list to leave this category now that Frodo, Sam, and Smeagol are required);
• The Assault Upon Helm's Deep (greatly reduced selection of heroes and moderately reduced selection of warriors, but increased potency for some of the most dangerous siege weapons in the game and increased warband limits to field lots of F4/S4 Uruk-Hai);
• The Black Riders (two profiles that all have 1 Attack and horses to boost that to 2 Attacks on the charge, but free channelled Transfix rules, increased Harbinger penalties when more Riders are present, and no need to spend Will for fighting); and
• The Vanquishers of the Necromancer (five profiles that give auric boosts to each other and gain rules to make the wizards more powerful in combat and all heroes can cast magic even if they're engaged).

There are other Legions that weren't discussed that probably fit into both of these categories - "good" Legions would probably also include the Defenders of the Shire LL (giving your Shire army a Goblin-Mercenary-like deployment squad and free traps), Helm's Guard (really reduced profile selection, but MEGA boost to Helm and the warriors near him), Theodred's Guard (reduced hero selection, but auto-passing Courage tests on everyone and the ability to spear-support with Helmingas), the Grand Army of the South (some elite warrior/hero profiles lost but greater boosts for your Suladan/The Mumak War Leader), the Pits of Dol Guldur (reduced profile selection for the Dark Powers of Dol Guldur, but adding Azog and some great rules that make him much more dangerous), and Ugluk's Scouts (greatly reduced profile list, but great rules for getting Uruks and Orcs to fight together).

"Ugly" Legions probably also include the Rangers of Mirkwood (also heavily invested in shooting with everyone able to be "invisible" behind terrain, though without spears and more expensive warriors and heroes) and the Rise of the Necromancer (no warrior options and no generic captain profiles, but all models either have lots of Will that can be used as Fate OR don't stay dead after you kill them - oh, and there are lots of boosts to the Necromancer). Both of these Legions are new and have been overshadowed by discussions on the other two Legions in their book, but they still emphasize things that other oppressive Legions do.

On the cusp of either the "good" and "ugly" are some Legions that probably could be viewed as oppressive, but aren't as egregious about it as others. These Legions include the Return of the King (a few extra heroes to ally into the Dead of Dunharrow but a free 6" Spirit banner and Anduril - everyone is hard to kill, though, and if you can't charge anyone/get your big hero insta-killed by the Aragorn-King-of-the-Dead combo, you feel wretched) and the Depths of Moria (really reduced selection of heroes and monsters, but greater emphasis on the Balrog and the basic Goblin troops/generic heroes - but let's face it, who wants to HAVE to deal 5+ wounds to a Balrog in any game?).

If you agree that the Legions listed above fall into one of these two categories (good or ugly - and maybe Legions like the Riders of Theoden and the Rangers of Ithilien have moved from one category to another), then the other Legions should at least be considered for the "bad" category - let's see what they are and why that is (and before anyone jumps on me in the comments and says, "you think my favorite Legion is bad?!?!?!", just wait a little longer).

Bad Legion #1: The Men of the West

Photo Credit: Warhammer Community

I don't know that limiting Rohan warriors to Rohan hero warbands and Gondor warriors to Gondor hero warbands was the right call - it means that five really great heroes are left with empty warbands - but the Legion gets critiqued in other ways too. No cavalry, vastly reduced hero and warrior options for both Minas Tirith and Rohan, and both Minas Tirith and Rohan being historical allies normally, you could probably build a much better army just by allying Minas Tirith and Rohan together. It's only if you bring a Fellowship hero (Legolas or Gimli) or the Rivendell heroes (the Twins) that you'd be losing your army bonuses (and if you don't have Rohan cavalry, who cares about their army bonus - and the Minas Tirith army bonus of +1 Courage you can live without too). Notice I have said nothing about the Fiefdoms component of the list . . .

I have several changes that I would love to make to this Legion, but you get surprising cost efficiency with your Warriors of Minas Tirith and Warriors of Rohan by giving them bodyguard in this Legion (effectively). Compared to Guards of the Fountain Court and Royal Guards, you can pay 2-3pts less for -1 FV (and -1D for the Warriors of Rohan) - and the FV drop can be regained for one turn if they're within 12" of Elessar (which everyone should be for one round).

What I also love about this Legion is that running Aragorn and Gandalf together is usually quite difficult in Minas Tirith (the Durin Show has an episode talking about this if you want to learn more) and this Legion . . . actually gives you a way to do that (because you have to take them without mounts and their more expensive troop types). Add Eomer with his shield and 250pts of warriors at 800pts and you have a force to be reckoned with (with up to 35 models in your army)! At lower points levels, you might not be able to fit in Gandalf, but you can fit in Legolas at 700pts with the exact same list (Elessar and Eomer with more or less full warbands). Eomer on foot isn't a great secondary hero, but he's better than a lot of other lists will have and if he and Elessar stay close together, they can punch through a lot.

Bad Legion #2: The Army of Gothmog

Photo Credit: Gamers Decide

When I did my review of these guys in our Stuff of Legends series, I wasn't very flattering - and I do think this army is in the running for what qualifies as a "bad" Legion. You don't get access to Ringwraiths, war beasts, and most cavalry options that Mordor usually does and all you get in return are "most of the Orc models", Trolls, and siege weapons. With rules that boost Gothmog's radiuses for his special rules but without changing the keywords of his rules to be more general, this Legion could be devastating or fall flat depending on what you're fighting.

But since Mordor has more hero and warrior options than any other list in the book by far, streamlining their army to "siege weapons, Trolls, and Orcs" means that those Mordor War Catapults can actually be used regularly in game play without being edged out by other troop or hero options. Anytime you use siege weapons, you gotta make up the points somewhere, so going down to cheap support heroes in the form of Guritz, Zagdush, and Goroth (who isn't exactly "cheap") is really good. While I think Gothmog is better as not-your-army-leader, he's decent for being an evil hero (and about as expensive as a siege engine). Is this a bad legion? Maybe - but if you run it with two catapults, it could also rock your opponent's list pretty well (bah-dum-ching).

Bad Legion #3: The Grey Company

Photo Credit: Warhammer Community

So . . . we got Rangers, right? And we got Legolas, Gimli, and the Twins, right? And that's basically it, right? Pretty much. Not much gained except keeping the Ranger army bonus (and the ability to bring the Twins with the Rangers without also bringing Elrond or Glorfindel). With your cheapest "spam heroes" (Dunedain) left out of the list and no mounts, this army doesn't look good.

But you also get Anduril for free. Aragorn makes all-infantry armies quite maneuverable and having played against this army at 550pts at a recent tournament, the power that the heroes give you (Aragorn, Halbarad, and either the Twins or Legolas and Gimli) can be REALLY nasty. Yes, you'll struggle with numbers, but with lots of shooting and Heroic Combats, don't underestimate these guys - they can go from losing to winning objective scenarios very quickly (Rythbyrt didn't lose a single Domination game in practice with his 550pt list and didn't lose his Domination game at the tournament either - it can be done with 7 models!).

Bad Legion #4: The Paths of the Druadan

Photo Credit: Warhammer Community

Tied for fourth in the highest-points-tax-for-a-Legion contest (300pts required), this Legion sports 16 infantry and 1+ Rohan cavalry, but is probably the easiest Rohan Legion to break because of the large D3 infantry block they have to take. If those infantry get stuck in a bad situation, saving them with your Rohan cavalry could be REALLY difficult and once you break, it's going to be hard to stick around.

You can, however, win Heroic Moves more reliably and you can pick places on the board that would normally be difficult terrain for you to treat as open terrain. Both of these are really nice for a cavalry army, giving you skirmish options and charging options that wouldn't normally be present. However, the presence of lots of F3/D3 models tends to see this army critiqued in the community - unfairly I think.

Bad Legion #5: The Riders of Eomer

Photo Credit: Warhammer Community

Often viewed as the short-handed cousins of the Riders of Theoden, this Legion has one of the most restrictive profile Legions in the game (five options) and lacks the ability for Riders of Rohan to be F4 on the charge (for reasons nobody knows). In trade for a very limited set of heroes (Eomer, Gandalf, Erkenbrand, Captains) and one warrior choice (Riders of Rohan who can be upgraded to Redshields - but not for free), you get one turn of glory (Shade-like -1 penalties to all enemy models on the battlefield) IF you have Gandalf in the army. As such, the tax for this Legion is really high (250-260pts) and you've got a serious restriction on your numbers at any points level.

But at the same time, if you have 4-5 heroes in your army and call 4-5 Heroic Combats on the round that the Sun is Rising, you can probably kill 16-20 models in a single round (kind of like the Riders of Theoden can). And while the Riders of Theoden run into the danger of the enemy rolling a 6-high, the Riders of Eomer on the charge against warriors can guarantee that the enemy CAN'T get a 6-high, so beating warriors is really easy. Underestimate this Legion at your peril - I've been playing it a lot recently and it's REALLY scary sometimes.

Bad Legion #6: The Black Gate Opens

Photo Credit: Warhammer Community

One named hero, one pseudo-named-hero in the form of the Uber Troll Chieftain, and a handful of generic heroes isn't a great hero corps. Add to that a very limited selection of warriors - none of which are mounted - and you've got an army that REALLY struggles to shine in light of the normal Mordor army (all Mordor Legions have this problem, by the way). Without the siege weapons and named Orc heroes available to the Army of Gothmog, the only thing that makes this Legion "worth taking" is that you can get +1 To Wound when you outnumber the enemy in a fight (it's a mystery whether spear-armed models supporting in the fight get this bonus - I think they do since it doesn't say that they don't). If you can't outnumber the enemy, you aren't getting much - and without a Shaman, charging certain armies might be REALLY hard.

But at the same time, this Legion has big, scary monster heroes (and is encouraged to take Mordor Troll Chieftains - some of the nastiest monster heroes in the game - since they don't have options for other conventional choices, like Shagrat, Gothmog, or Nazgul of some ilk). They also might not have cavalry, but if you take a Mordor Troll with war drum (usually a hard choice to include in a normal Mordor list) and a hero with March (like the Mouth of Sauron), you can get 12" movement on all your infantry if you need it. The only thing scarier than a Morannon Orc spam rushing 12" at your army is a Morannon Orc spam rushing 12" at your army with 2-3 Trolls in it . . . yeesh, that's nasty.

Bad Legion #7: The Chief's Ruffians

Photo Credit: Warhammer Community

One might argue that Sharkey's Rogues in any form can't be competitive - and maybe that's right. With no big heroes (and lots of . . . well, pretty bad heroes) and really bad warrior choices, this Legion would appear to most viewers as dead on arrival. My son likes to say, "But Ruffians are the worst unit in the game - how can they be good?"

But Ruffians do two things well in this Legion: first and foremost, they are 6pt archers - yes, they have a 5+ shoot value, but quantity has a quality all its own. If your opponent invested in Blinding Light to protect him from Elves or Rangers, he'll find that 30 Ruffians are happy to move half-speed and hit on a 6 . . . like they always do.

Ruffians also get +1 To Hit with their whips in this list - which is DIFFERENT from hitting on a 4+ (though effectively it is). Against someone protected by Blinding Light, the Chief's Ruffians will actually hit with their Whirl-enabling throwing weapons on a 5+ (because 5s become 6s). Pretty incredible - and if you outnumber the enemy 3:1, you don't need too many whips to hit and wound in order to make the odds swing in your favor. Since a few heroes have whips (Sid and Bill), you may have a Might point to boost a wounding roll too.

Bad Legion #8: Lurtz's Scouts

Photo Credit: Warhammer Community

Don't get me started with these guys - no Shaman means that whole thing Saruman says about, "You do not know pain, you do not know fear" is completely untrue of this Legion. This Legion has to charge (no spears) and has average Courage (even on their heroes), they have no saves and are D4-5 (Lurtz gets up to D6), and while everyone is fast (free Marauder upgrade + Heroic March + Drummer = up to 14" moves each turn), that doesn't always help you (and sometimes it means you run to your death FASTER than you would normally).

But Lurtz's Scouts does have something that other Isengard lists don't have: a streamlined set of models so that you can focus on maximizing cheap, good-stat Captains, 9-point bowmen that can be fielded en masse, and multiple banners. Why? Because you're not spending points on things like cavalry, heavy armor, or crossbows. Without heroes like Saruman, as well, you can turn those points savings into something that Isengard armies can struggle to do: bulking out your numbers.

Bad Legion #9: The Wolves of Isengard

Photo Credit: CouncilofElrond.com

No comments here - these guys are bad. PSYCHE - that doesn't sound like me. :)

This Legion is often hailed as one of the best armies at the three maelstrom scenarios in the Matched Play Guide since they are a) able to get cavalry charges off on the first turn of the game, b) can choose to deploy second so that they know where the enemy is, c) rush a handful of models (maybe some Wild Wargs) onto the board before anyone deploys so they can get objective contesting early, and d) basically get to deploy wherever they want. Yes, it can be powerful.

But after that first glorious turn (and even during it), you're still using a F3 warrior army with F4 heroes - and while Sharku gets free Heroic Combats, being stuck at F4 is a huge limitation against elite armies (even if you're swarming them). With no answers to big heroes or elite troops (and no rules to protect their mounts from being shot out from under them), you're counting on having cheap heroes and cheap cavalry/fast infantry to have a numbers advantage against your opponent. Unless Gothmog is in your army (a Mordor Warg Rider build, not an Isengard one), most competitive player would submit that Warg Riders are best in small pockets, not en masse.

But it is possible with fast horde armies to race to objectives and break/quarter yourself to make the game end. This army quarters itself quite well, so there's that. :-)

Are These Legions Bad?

All of these Legions run into one of two problems related to the points levels you're playing at: some of these Legions (like the Paths of the Druadan and Riders of Eomer) require high points investments to get access to their rules, so playing them at lower points levels will make the list feel like it's lacking something compared to other Legions (most notably the Riders of Theoden for these two Legions). Similarly, other Legions start losing options as the points level gets higher and would prefer to play at lower points levels (like the Wolves of Isengard or Lurtz's Scouts). If the points level gets really high, some armies might appear to "become viable" (like the Army of Gothmog or the Black Gate Opens), but can play at lower points levels by going with fewer models and making all of their units hard to deal with (like a Mordor Troll spam for the Black Gate or a Morannon Orc spam for the Army of Gothmog).

But this gets to the first thought I have on Legions being bad: 

All armies can be "good" or "bad" (and NOT ugly) based on the points level.

This is true of non-Legendary Legions too - playing with Sauron around 600pts is doable, but can be quite difficult to play as the points level gets lower. Bump that up to 800pts and suddenly, Barad-Dur can be "good". Everything in the game has a "good" points level that it wants to operate at (sometimes with a different array of heroes based on the points level) and if you're not playing at that level, it might be considered "bad."

Are the Rangers of Ithilien (considered by many pre-nerf to be an "ugly" Legion) "ugly" at 1000pts? Maybe - but many competitive players will look to other options because the Rangers have run out of tricks. Similarly, the Black Riders LL isn't very dangerous below 500pts because you're looking at having 5 or fewer Riders who all have minimal stats. Tough to fight sometimes? Possibly. Negative play experience? Possible as well. Likely to be "that bad"? No.

But there's another thing to consider:

Any Legion can be "competitive" if a player devotes himself to learning how it works.

What most of the "good" Legions above have in common is that you can make a "competitive" list with very little thought devoted to their list building. Building a competitive list from the Defenders of Helm's Deep or the Return of the King isn't difficult - the armies don't have bad units and give you some incredible buffs. Please note that I'm not saying that there isn't any list building thought that goes into the list - there is, I know - but you don't HAVE to be a master list crafter or strategist to bring them to the table and "make them work."

By contrast, you can take a Legion like the Grey Company and the Riders of Eomer to a tournament and win games if you focus on what that lists does - and NOT focus on what it's missing. Few armies will be able to skirmish like the Riders of Eomer can (with Blinding Light/Fortify Spirit to protect heroes and Sorcerous Blast/Banishment to supplement the bows at whittling down the enemy numbers) - and if your opponent is prepared to fight the Rangers of Ithilien and runs into a cavalry army that is hard to catch and still shoots a lot, you could have a distinct advantage.

Playing with Legions that nobody likes also has the advantage of surprise - if you've played a lot with a Legion and learn how it works, your opponent may make assumptions about how it plays, underestimate you, prepare for their assumptions about how the list will play, and then be out of position when you pull off your stunt! It can be amazing to surprise your opponent - and even if you lose the game, you can usually exit a game feeling proud of yourself because you caught your opponent off guard and scared him for a time. Sure, it feels good to win, but only half of the people playing win (usually), so create a secondary objective by taking one of these "bad" Legions and count how many times you improve the other player's view of the Legion instead.

Conclusion

Do some Legions need fixing? I think so. Will "bad" Legions be fixed to make them more viable? I doubt it. Why? Because apparently they are designed for theme only and not everything "has to be competitive." This may be the wrong idea, but I hesitate to say that any Legion is "bad" because I think all of them have merits. Some of them are easier to use competitively than others, but if you're willing to forget what you know before you start list building and try ridiculous combos that no one else could make work, you might be surprised by what you come up with (and your opponent might too).

On the whole, I agree with Ali - there are "bad" Legions - but having bad lists is nothing new and whether a Legion is "good" or "bad" will be determined by their points level and the skill level of the player using them. If you have thoughts on whether or not the Legions I identified as "bad" are actually "good" or "ugly" - or if you think that some Legions will always be bad - let us know in the comments below. Until next time, happy hobbying!