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Good morning gamers, There wasn't a lot of time between the Spring Zephyr tournament and the GT this year, so I streamlined my list test...

Thursday, August 17, 2023

If Tiberius Were King For A Day: Top 5 Profile Changes I'd Make

Good morning gamers,

Any person who reads Tolkien or watches the films is bound to love something about Middle-Earth (assuming they're the fall-in-love-with-Fantasy type). For some players, this often rears its head in MESBG with cool custom profiles being proposed for characters that show up Tolkien's works that aren't the Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit, custom Legendary Legions, or occasionally cool scenarios that try to recreate events from Middle-Earth's history.

But more often than not, I see this love for characters, profiles, and factions displayed in a request for updates to existing profiles. Questions like, "How do you get Osgiliath Veterans to work? I love the sculpts and I think they're so cool, but they just don't seem to be worth it - what do you do to make them work?" Have you seen these questions? And have you asked them?

Well, I've decided to compile my list of five profiles that I like (for various reasons) and what I would change about them to make them "better" if I were the King of SBG for a day. I will say that the profiles I've chosen are not only models that I like and think need a slight alteration, but they're also models I play with regularly (and would play with more if their rules were tweaked ever so slightly). With that, let's dive into . . .

Profile #1: Osgiliath Veterans 

Let's start with a profile that everyone struggles to see the point of or a use for (though I tried really hard last year): Osgiliath Veterans. "OsVets" cost +1pt more than Warriors of Minas Tirith and have an identical profile to them with two exceptions: first, they get +1 Courage (which makes them C5 with the Minas Tirith army bonus), and second, they trade the chance of having +1 Defense with the Shieldwall special rule for the chance of having +1 Fight Value if they're near Faramir or Boromir (which is actually easier to do than keeping Shieldwall up). 

For most players, OsVets are too similar to Warriors of Minas Tirith, Guards of the Fountain Court, and Citadel Guard for their +1 Courage to matter - especially since the latter two options have Bodyguard, which bypasses the need for higher Courage (and certainly +1 Courage) in almost every situation - and they're base F4 instead of conditionally F4. OsVets need something else. I think this could be easily fixed in one of two ways: first, give them Hatred (Mordor). Hatred appears for free on several profiles (most notably Wild Men of Dunland in Isengard/the Army of Dunland LL and basically everyone in the Arnor army list). Hatred, when it triggers, is incredible - it can turn a hard wounding difficulty into something manageable and a manageable wounding difficulty into a pretty easy one. Since Minas Tirith caps out at S3 across its warriors, having a heavily-armored unit that can wound well against a very common keyword would be good. Even if you think Hatred shouldn't be free, giving them Hatred would effectively make their Courage boost free (which Dwarves, Elves, and Black Numenoreans get already).

The other way they could be fixed would be to give them Shieldwall. It's not intuitive that making them more like Warriors of Minas Tirith would make them better, but consider this: if these guys costed +1pt/model over Warriors of Minas Tirith and got +1 Courage and possibly +1 Fight Value and were otherwise exactly the same, you'd take them over Warriors of Minas Tirith if Boromir and/or Faramir are in your list, but not otherwise. You could even change this from a profile into an upgrade for Warriors of Minas Tirith in Boromir's or Faramir's warbands. Whether it's adding a rule to a profile or turning it into an upgrade, either of these changes gives OsVets a place - and the Courage is once again effectively free. This is important because no one is going to pay extra for just an extra pip of Courage. Speaking of which . . .

Profile #2: The Galadhrim Guard Upgrade 

I am NOT referring to Guards of the Fountain Galadhrim Court - those guys are basically the cheapest F6/C6 models in the game and can be allied into any Forces of Good list as Convenient or Historical Allies (so you might lose your army bonus, but you won't lose anything else). No, I'm referring to that upgrade you can give to Galadhrim Warriors in Galadriel's or Celeborn's warband that gives them +1 Courage. In general, no one pays for +1 Courage on their Elves (unless, of course, you're also getting F6 by going with Guards of the Galadhrim Court). C5 is fine - and while there are times when you'll wish you were C6 (either because you failed to pass a Courage Test by 1 pip OR because you're fighting a model that has Blades of the Dead that wounds you more easily because you're not C6), in general we can all live with C5 Elves.

But there's an easy change to make the "Galadhrim Guard" upgrade viable - it comes with four requirements though:
  1. Remove the ability to upgrade Galadhrim Warriors to Galadhrim Guard from Celeborn's and Galadriel's profiles;
  2. All Galadhrim Warriors are upgraded to Galadhrim Guard in Haldir's warband if he takes heavy armor and Galadhrim Captains' warbands if they don't take a mount;
  3. Change the cost of upgrading to Galadhrim Guard to +2 points/model; and
  4. Galadhrim Guard do not count towards your bow limit.
Now I know what some of you are thinking - it probably goes along the lines of, "Why in the WORLD would we want Elf bowmen to not count towards an army's bow limit! Don't you see, Tiberius, that someone's just gonna ally Haldir and 15 Elf bowmen into whatever force he wants? Are you SERIOUS right now?"

My response is simple: "You mean like what he does in the Two Towers film?" I was a bit sad when the Defenders of Helm's Deep Legendary Legion was released that you couldn't take an army of just Elves and the Fellowship to represent the Deeping Wall from the films (I do have an idea about this - more on it in a later post) and while you can run 33% bows (rounding up) with Haldir and Captains, you can't have an all-bow army like they have at the Deeping Wall. With this change you could - for 13-14pts/warrior depending on whether you gave them a spear or not.

While this proposition might seem outrageous, consider that an all-Mirkwood-Ranger force from the Halls of Thranduil is paying nearly the same price per model for models that don't count towards your bow limit (either with the Halls of Thranduil army bonus or with the Rangers of Mirkwood Legendary Legion) - no one complains about that Legion or that element of the army bonus being overpowered, now do they? If you paid 85pts for Haldir and then 218pts for 14 Galadhrim Warriors with Elf bows and the Galadhrim Guard upgrade and one Galadhrim Warrior with an Elf bow and a banner, yes, you could get 17 Elf bow shots for about 300 points - I get that. 

But you can do almost the same thing with Legolas right now - Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood runs you 95-115 depending on what you get him, 14 Mirkwood Rangers costs 196pts, and 1 Mirkwood Elf with Elf bow and banner costs 36pts. Sure, you might pay closer to 325 for it (and you limit your alliance choices quite a bit to ally it into something), but Legolas gets quite a bit more bang for your buck than Haldir does (extra shot/round OR hitting once on a 2+ and ignoring all penalties - not to mention +1 Will/+2 Fate). Yeah, it's not unheard of - and we've tempered this a bit by requiring that ALL Galadhrim Warriors taken in his warband have to be upgraded like this (akin to what Gildor needs to do if he takes Wood Elf Warriors in his warband). Speaking of which, I could also see this upgrade (or one like it) being available to Wood Elf Warriors in Wood Elf Captain warbands and Haldir's warband if he doesn't take heavy armor and does take an Elven cloak.

I'm not saying that this wouldn't change the meta necessarily - it might, maybe even in a good way - but I think we can all see people actually TAKING the upgrade. For me, that seems like a change worth investigating (and perhaps even more so if something in next week's article was done too). Now for something that I feel should be a bit less controversial . . .

Profile #3: Aragorn - Strider (and both versions of Boromir)

Before we begin, I'd like to say that pretty much everything about the Aragorn - Strider and either of the Boromir profiles is excellent. These guys have good Fight Value, Attacks, Wounds, and Might (SOOOOO much Might!) and their Defense is pretty good (often D6-7). They can ally with virtually anyone from the Armies of the Lord of the Rings book and they can deal mass punishment easily on the battlefield.

But they can't two-hand to get +1 To Wound. They can't - despite BOTH of them having hand-and-a-half swords that they wield one-handed and two-handed throughout the films (and before anyone says it, the documentary for Weta Workshop from the Extended Edition of the Fellowship of the Ring features a statement from Richard Taylor referring to Boromir's sword as a "hand-and-a-half sword," so yes, it is in fact a hand-and-a-half sword).

My change to these profiles is simple: change their "swords" into "hand-and-a-half swords". Getting +1 To Wound is a big deal in this game - any D7 warrior or "bunker captain" can walk up to these guys, charge into them, and then shield-and-try-not-to-die. And these guys hate it - so much so, that most people that run Aragorn default to ALSO buying Anduril because they don't want Aragorn to stall out. Boromir fans are left up a creek without a paddle because no version of Boromir can get +1 To Wound (unless mega-Boromir foregoes that epic banner of his for a lance). 

The funny thing is that whenever I've proposed this on a Facebook forum, everyone seems to say, "Nah, they're good - don't need it." In fact, my mate Rythbyrt did a poll a few years back on the GBHL Facebook Group and the Warhammer great Nick Bayton replied that with the free Might Point each turn, Aragorn really didn't need a bonus to wound. With all due respect to Nick (and I mean that genuinely), Aragorn's free Might point each turn is EXACTLY why giving him the option to go two-handed would be such an improvement. Right now, Aragorn's free Might point is used almost exclusively for heroic actions (assuming he hasn't been Transfixed or something) - but give him the ability to wound things more reliably, and you might see him banking the Might to boost his dueling roll instead, countering the penalty he'd receive from two-handing. He would then get the equivalent of 3 (or more if he's mounted!) free Might points with his +1 To Wound - and THAT would make all the difference.

Boromir doesn't get a free Might point each turn, but he does start with 6 Might (more than any other hero starts with on his own - though Azog can have effectively 6 Might if he takes the White Warg). As someone who's struggled to get his Boromir to kill things (on foot or mounted), having the option to carve through a D5-6 guy on a 4+ or actually do damage to a D7-8 guy would be epic - and I'd two-hand with him all day long. And if he's fighting several foes, he could declare that he's fighting two-handed and then use the Horn of Gondor to try and automatically win the dueling roll! 

This change would be particularly welcome in the Breaking of the Fellowship list for both Aragorn and Boromir because their option for taking a mount to double their dice is removed (and Aragorn can't take Anduril). If it would be better to make this a Legion-specific rule (and possibly add it to the Defenders of Helm's Deep where Aragorn is likewise forbidden from taking a mount or Anduril), I could be persuaded of that too "for balance." Now for something that will hopefully not be controversial at all . . .

Profile #4: Dunedain and Rangers of the North 

If you really want to learn about how to change these profiles, I will direct you to Rythbyrt's amazing Christmas gift last year where he proposed a soft-revamp and a hard-revamp of the Rangers (and their affiliated Legendary Legions - yes, plural "Legions"). The bent I'd like to focus on here, though, is their comparison to Beornings (something Centaur has remarked on) and other "elite" profiles in general. The Dunedain and Rangers of the North are supposed to be these super-elite, wizened, bold, strong, sneaky guys - and yet with F4/S4/possibly-2A, they're fairly "eh" when compared to Rohan Royal Guards on the charge (F5/S4/2A with knock-down), Men-at-Arms of Dol Amroth (F5-6 depending on how close they are to Imrahil and/or mega-Boromir with his banner), and of course any Dwarf unit in the game (but particularly Iron Guard, who are F4/S4/2A). I don't know - there's something missing from these profiles that's just wrong to me.

The solution to me is simple: boost these guys to F5, 2 Attacks, and 2 Wounds while raising their base price by 15pts. This would naturally need to come with a price-hike, but considering that Eowyn begins at F5/2A/2W for 40pts (45pts with armor), I think you could go about the same price (40pts for Dunedain, 45pts for Rangers of the North) and be just fine. Sure, these guys start at S4 and Eowyn starts at S3, but she also has 2M/2W/2F and they only have 1M/1W/1F. She has Strike, they get the potential to have +1 Attack while on foot from their army bonus. I don't know, I think think this would be a really simple fix and would at least put them on-par as far as stats go with Beornings (with the potential for having +1 Attack). 

Now lest you think a price hike on already-expensive models is too much, consider this: with a base price of 25 points, increasing your price by 15 points IS going to cut into your numbers, but your staying power goes up (extra wound), you're more likely to win fights that would have been a roll-off and potentially going to your opponent, and you're getting more dice to win the fight (on foot or mounted). If you had the option of having 5 Dunedain as they are right now or 3 Dunedain as they would be under this metric, I think there's a very strong case for taking 3 better guys than 5 weaker guys. But I leave it to you, ultimately, to decide if I'm crazy. Now for our last profile - and one I'm super excited about . . .

Profile #5: Samwise Gamgee

Oh, Sam - how I love you in the films, in the books, and in the Rangers of Ithilien Legendary Legion. You're a fine and decent chap - but you're also my last choice for a Breaking of the Fellowship list, a Fellowship alliance (but again, more on this in a later post), and for Fantasy Fellowships. Oh, Sam, you're so expensive for 40 points and with F3/S2/1A, you're just not that great in combat unless you've got help. Sure, you've got free Heroic Combats if Frodo's in danger, but you can't DO anything about it unless there's someone else doing the heavy lifting. For 40pts, I think we can do better - or make two simple changes that would make you excel.

First and foremost, change his "Let Him Go or I'll Have You Longshanks!" rule to give Sam a +1 To Wound bonus. Sam is base S2 - and he can't do any better than that. Giving him a +1 To Wound gives him a decent chance of wounding a foe that's D3-4 (wound on 4s) and a reachable-but-not-great chance of wounding a foe that's D5-6 (wound on 5s). This would only be when he's desperately trying to save Frodo, so it wouldn't be active all the time - and I think it would make him a bit more appealing. Furthermore, the other profiles that have rules like this (Deorwine and Dwarf Shieldbearers) are S4 base (and both have options for being S5 - and Deorwine adds on cavalry buffs), so they already wound this easily . . . why not also give it to Sam?

Also, I'd make it so that if Frodo has the One Ring and dies, Frodo is replaced by a 25mm marker and if Sam can reach that marker, he can pick up the Ring. Ringbearers are really useful - and if Sam could become a Ringbearer once your first Ringbearer died, he'd be EPIC. Like, REALLY EPIC! Yes, he'd have to get to Frodo, so you couldn't just tuck him away in the back and magically get the Ring - he'd need to be fighting beside Frodo, trying to save him, and then when he failed, he'd pick up the Ring and continue on. Yes, for 40 points, I think I'd like this very much - and it would be super thematic.

About Those Two Other Profiles . . .

Perhaps you're one of those people shouting at your screen, saying, "What about a F6 Eomer or a mounted Grimbold!" Yes, I did think about putting those guys on the list. I also think these buffs should probably be Legion-specific and am torn about them. Rest assured, we'll get to these guys in a future post and sort this out then.

Conclusion

Hopefully this was engaging for you - and if you think there are other profiles that should be fixed, let me know! Next week, I'll be looking at five rules changes that I think would be good for the game. Some of them are fixing long-time problematic rules and others attempt to make things we see in the films (or historically) more viable - it should be fun. Until next time, happy hobbying!

12 comments:

  1. Dark lord sauron should be fearless. His weapon should always win duel draws on a 3+ even against elven weapons. His spell suite should be as good as the Necromancer. He should have 1 free might per turn. Because .....400pts shouldn't fail to charge a WKOA. Or get beaten just be sure theres a rivendell warrior in the fight.

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    1. These are fair points - Sauron is a huge investment and he does seem to blunt. I might moderate the free Might to a free Heroic Combat each turn, since it would stop the I-charged-you-with-a-grunt-so-whatcha-gonna-do that Sauron tends to find himself in, but a carte blanche free Might point each turn might be a bit too much latitude. Adding Curse to his casting suite (and possibly Shroud of Shadows) would also be a good addition. Fearless on big models is always welcome. :)

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    2. Yup. He's considerably poorer than either the balrog or the Necromancer. Trap him and he goes in the bin so easily. Perhaps "never considered trapped while standing". He needs something as the list of crap stuff that has smooshed him grows by the week.

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  2. Wait whaaat ? I bet you would write something on Eomer not being F6 !!
    I'm disappointed and amazed, it was a trap !
    About archer not counting toward bow limit, isn't therd a trix to get an elf who was there 3000 years ago and a lot of Knights with bow ?
    Thank you for this writing, I enjoyed as always.

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    1. That's a trick you can run too! It's a lot more expensive, but yes, for a good 550pts, you can get 18 Elf bows into any army. :-)

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  3. you probably mean 'guards of the GALADHRIM court', not 'Fountain' (as fountains are not F6...)

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  4. while I agree that the Rangers and the Dunedain profiles should be changed (as wel as their alliance matrix), I wouldn't change the cost this much - I would even lower it without the profile change, to be fair. I mean, Minas Tirith has a bunch of quite good heroes that cost thirty-something, and they are pretty useful, with nice bonuses specific to them. Frankly they are like the Rangers/Dunedain, but more rounded. Just my two cents :)

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    1. That's true - and I feel like having a base profile with a "pick your upgrade" like the Nazgul of Dol Guldur could be a good avenue too (which is kind of what you get with Anborn and Mablung over Damrod). If no bonus rules were provided, though, tapping into cheapish F5/2A heroes would at least make them compete.

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  5. Good stuff, and I support anything that could bring the Dunedain into the heroes they are meant to be!

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    1. I like fight 5 too but I'd prefer strength 4. I think the fight problem is more that everyone else probably needs toning down. Fight 4 is not what it used to be :p.
      Hobbits to 1
      Anyone untrained to fight 2 maybe even Rohan infantry.
      Then uruks could have been fight 3 strength 4 basically I think being tighter on who is elite enough for fight 4 would have been good imo

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    2. Centaur has already done a whole discussion on the problem with FV, but the issue really comes down more with how exclusive F7+ is - F1 and F2 are pretty well handed out to the untrained/primitive fighters (Hobbits, Goblins, some Spiders, and angry fishermen), while F3 is the starting point for trained troops.

      F4 is the right place for elite troops - and I could see F5 being used for them too. But because most heroes live in the F4-6 realm, it causes awkward moments where a warrior (like a Knight of Dol Amroth near Imrahil and Boromir's banner) can be on/par or better than some of the biggest names in the game (tied with Aragorn or Imrahil, better than Eomer or Helm Hammerhand) just because of a situational boost. If the Aragorns of the world were F7 or F8 so the not-quite-as-epic heroes like Eomer could be F6 or F7, I think we'd be fine. Oh, and Dunedain could be F5. :-)

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