The Road To the TMAT GT 2023: Tiberius's List

Good morning gamers,

This weekend is our TMAT Grand Tournament and boy do we have a good batch of guys coming out! As always, I had a FLOOD of lists that I was looking at running, but for the purposes of actually practicing more than once with the list that I'd be running, I decided to rein in my thoughts and narrow it down to a few lists. As is usually the case, I decided on one list at the start that I was like, "Yeah, this is probably my list" and then played with all the OTHER lists to see if I liked how they played better. So let's look at the list I decided to take . . . and the ones that just didn't make it.

Honorable Mention: The Men of the West LL

Yep, these are my boys and I'll be honest, I picked a 600ish points level because I wanted four games in one day, but also so I could bring these guys. This list was my reference list - I compared everything to it because I've played it a ton before and it's reliable. Like, it's really reliable (and while you might say, "Minas Tirith + Rohan/Fiefdoms would be better," I have struggled to find a better list with a historical pairing at 623pts). The list has Aragorn and Eomer with maximum archery, maximum models, and a banner in Eomer's warband. I played with this list a bit before the Winter Whirlwind tournament, but ultimately there was one list (maybe two) that made me feel like it was a bit better for the match-ups I'd be looking at:

• Aragorn, King Elessar [ARMY LEADER]
• 7 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields
• 11 Warriors of Minas Tirith shields and spears 
• Eomer, Marshal of the Riddermark with shield
• 3 Warriors of Rohan with shields and throwing spears
• 1 Warrior of Rohan with shield, throwing spears, and banner 
• 11 Warriors of Rohan with bows

623pts, 35 models, 11 bows hitting on a 4+ AND 4 throwing spears  hitting on a 4+, 20 D6+ model, no fast models but Mighty Hero and Heroic March, 6+ Might

Candidate #5: Lurtz's Scouts LL

I LOVE this Legion a lot and it's really, REALLY fast! Both of the practice games I played were random-rolled to be from Pool 5 and I vetoed Divide and Conquer both times (since it plays the least to the speed of my list) and was forced to play Storm the Camp twice (though I'd prefer Reconnoitre). The list is fast, hits hard when you can double-up in fights, and has a surprising amount of archery. Oh, and it has 3 banners in it - one in each warband:

• Lurtz with shield [ARMY LEADER]
• INDEPENDENT: Uruk-Hai Drummer
• 4 Uruk-Hai Marauders
• 5 Uruk-Hai Marauders with shields
• 1 Uruk-Hai Marauder with shield and banner
• 2 Uruk-Hai Marauders with Uruk-Hai bows
• Ugluk
• 2 Uruk-Hai Marauders
• 4 Uruk-Hai Marauders with shields
• 4 Uruk-Hai Marauders with Uruk-Hai bows
• 1 Uruk-Hai Marauder with Uruk-Hai bow and banner
• Mauhur
• 2 Uruk-Hai Marauders
• 4 Uruk-Hai Marauders with shields
• 4 Uruk-Hai Marauders with Uruk-Hai bows
• 1 Uruk-Hai Marauder with Uruk-Hai bow and banner

623pts, 38 models, 12 Uruk-Hai bows hitting on a 4+ AND 1 Uruk-Hai bow/shield hitting on a 3+, 1 D6+ model, 38 fast infantry AND a war drum AND 8 might for Heroic March, 8 Might

The problem with this list was always going to be its vulnerability in Pools 2 and 4 - the Uruks die so quickly and with a pretty-good-but-not-great model count, it just wasn't going to survive the test against my other lists. D4-5 is a real handicap no matter how fast your list is - and while I could have bolstered the numbers by dropping a banner or two, the lack of spears meant any banners lost would require me to shield more (which really undercuts the value of having S4 across the list). So, despite this being VERY much a front-runner for me, I'm putting them back in the box. Maybe next time, guys . . .

Candidate #4: Cirith Ungol LL

Do you know what's better than having a D4-5 list with D5-6 heroes? Having a D4-5 list with D6-7 heroes! This list got an extra model over the previous list (39 total) by dropping a banner, downgrading a bunch of troops to Orcs, and using those saved points to ramp up the heroes! Gorbag and Shelob cost the same as Mauhur and Lurtz and while the comparisons aren't direct ones, Gorbag isn't going to be THAT much worse than Mauhur (and with the ability to Strike, his resilience against big heroes is at least slightly better - especially in this Legion if Shagrat is out-killing him). Shelob isn't the same as Lurtz, but once Lurtz is out of Might, she's at least got the Fight Value advantage (and with S7, Monstrous Charge, and Venom, very few of her wounding dice are going to fail to wound). The Drummer has been upgraded to an Orc Captain (for March - it's essential for these average-Defense, infantry-heavy lists in my opinion), who is slightly more punch and slightly more resilient.

But the big thing all those point trades did for us was allowed us to add Shagrat - and if you don't think Shelob can really compete with Lurtz, it's pretty clear that Shagrat's got Lurtz's number in every way. With more Will/Fate than Lurtz, the ability to knock models prone when he charges, D7 instead of D6, and the ability to Challenge Heroes of Fortitude, the only thing Lurtz can do in his Legion that Shagrat can't do is knock someone over (potentially) with his shield throw BEFORE the fight (and get Might back right away when he issues a Challenge . . . and he can Challenge Independent/Minor heroes, I guess . . . but does anyone other than me issue Heroic Challenges?). In what I think can be safely called a "Tiberius Special," all of my Mordor Uruk-Hai have Orc bows:

• Shagrat, Captain of Cirith Ungol with heavy armor and the Shield of Cirith Ungol [ARMY LEADER]
• 9 Mordor Uruk-Hai with Orc bows
• 3 Mordor Uruk-Hai with Orc bows and two-handed maces
• Gorbag, Orc Captain
• 3 Orc Warriors with shields
• 5 Orc Warriors with shields and spears
• 1 Orc Warrior with shield, spear, and banner
• 2 Orc Warriors with two-handed weapons
• Orc Captain with pick and shield
• 3 Orc Warriors with shields
• 7 Orc Warriors with shields and spears
• 1 Orc Warrior with shield, spear, and banner
• 1 Orc Warrior with two-handed weapon
• Shelob

623pts, 39 models, 12 Orc bows hitting on a 4+, 4 D6+ models, 1 fast infantry AND 2 Might for Heroic March, 8 Might

We've got two banners in the list (one to back up Shagrat, the other to back up Gorbag - Shelob doesn't need it so long as we have an Orc near her), almost max models (1 Orc away), plenty of spears to back up the Uruks/Gorbag, and we've got maximum bows (which as I've said before, Mordor Uruk-Hai are good bowmen for an Evil army, albeit expensive ones). The biggest struggle for me with this list was, again, that the numbers were pretty-good-not-great with average Defense. Shelob is fast, but unlike the other list, this army can move 9" a turn for two turns and then they're your average, run-of-the-mill 6" move horde. 

And oh by the way, the Uruks are all D4 - and if they want to shoot, they'll be moving slowly. Generally speaking, it's fine that we're slow - a good chunk of the scenarios in Pools 2-4 allow you to start on/near the centerline (all three in Pool 2, one in Pool 3, two in Pool 4), but in Pool 5, actually "getting somewhere" was going to be hard. Frankly, I didn't like how this army sized up in Pools 5 and 4 (again, we're going to be hemorrhaging models with D4-5), so as much as I was looking forward to using this list, it's just not gonna happen this time.

Candidate #3: Mordor 

This shot is actually missing one Tracker . . . it's a lot of guys . . .

Lots of Evil on the brain this time around, can you tell? I was busily painting Morannon Orcs one day when I looked up and said to my son Gorgoroth, "You know, I could field all 48 of these Morannon Orcs I'm painting for less than 400 points." He didn't say anything. I went on, "It would be 84+96+96+108, right?" He continued what he was doing. "Wait," I said, "That's 384 points . . . which means with a banner I would have about 210pts to play with . . . which is Goroth and like 3 little Captains!" Gorgoroth said, "What?"

So my thoughts were pretty simple - spam out guys, have Goroth as my army leader (decent killing power, hard to kill), and spam out more guys. Since I've been working on my Quest of the Ringbearer collection, it wouldn't hurt to show off as many of my newly-painted Morannon Orcs and converted Captains too. Here's what I came up with:

• Goroth, Captain of the Morannon [ARMY LEADER]
• 4 Morannon Orcs with shields
• 4 Morannon Orcs with shields and spears
• 1 Morannon Orc with shield, spear, and banner
• 3 Orc Warriors with Orc bows
• Morannon Orc Captain with shield
• 3 Morannon Orcs
• 1 Morannon Orc with shield
• 3 Morannon Orcs with spears
• 2 Morannon Orcs with spears and shields
• 1 Orc Tracker
• 1 Orc Warrior with Orc bow
• 1 Orc Warrior with Orc bow and spear
• Morannon Orc Captain with two-handed hammer
• 3 Morannon Orcs
• 1 Morannon Orc with shield
• 3 Morannon Orcs with spears
• 2 Morannon Orcs with spears and shields
• 1 Orc Tracker
• 1 Orc Warrior with Orc bow
• 1 Orc Warrior with Orc bow and spear
• Orc Captain with shield
• 1 Morannon Orc
• 3 Morannon Orcs with shields
• 3 Morannon Orcs with spears
• 2 Morannon Orcs with spears and shields
• 1 Orc Tracker
• 2 Orc Warriors with Orc bows

623pts, 52 models, 9 Orc bows hitting on a 5+, 24 D6+ models, no fast units but 6 Might for Heroic March, 9 Might

In case you missed it, that's four max-warbands and FIFTY-TWO models - now we're talking! With lots of March in the list, this army seemed to do a better job at this points level than anything I could make with Gothmog - and the Mordor Army Bonus would boost my warriors up to C3 (and rerolling 1s To Wound) so long as we didn't run into an army with more than FIFTY-TWO models! It also plays very similarly to a lot of Isengard lists I've run in the past - your most dangerous assets are actually the Morannon Orcs, NOT your heroes. As a result, shutting down the killing in this list is pretty difficult (unless you have gobs of F4 . . . or more than fifty-two models).

Alas, the lack of any punch in the list besides Morannon Orcs (who are punchy) and Goroth (who is also punchy) just made the army less fun to play with than . . .

Candidate #2: Angmar 

If you read my post detailing the armies I considered taking to the Winter Whirlwind tournament in February, you may recall that I got a Fell Beast last year and have been anxious to use him! 600ish points of Angmar with the Witch-King gives you some options, like this one:

• The Witch-King of Angmar on Fell Beast with the Crown of Morgul and 3M/15W/2F [ARMY LEADER]
• 2 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields
• 2 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields and spears
• 2 Angmar Orc Warriors with two-handed axes
• 5 Angmar Orc Warriors with Orc bows
• 2 Angmar Warg Riders with shields and throwing spears
• 4 Wild Wargs
• Barrow-Wight (Red)
• 5 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields
• 4 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields and spears
• 1 Angmar Orc Warrior with shield, spear, and banner
• 1 Angmar Orc Warrior with Orc bow
• 1 Angmar Orc Warrior with Orc bow and spear
• Barrow-Wight (Yellow)
• 5 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields
• 4 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields and spears
• 1 Angmar Orc Warrior with shield, spear, and banner
• 1 Angmar Orc Warrior with Orc bow
• 1 Angmar Orc Warrior with Orc bow and spear

623pts, 44 models, 9 Orc bows hitting on a 5+ AND 2 throwing spears hitting on a 5+, 3 D6+ models, 3 cavalry AND 4 fast infantry, 3 Might

A Fell Beast at this points level is going to be terrifying - especially if I am careful to keep him near the Barrow-Wights (I mean, Monstrous-Charge-while-paralyzed is pretty awful). Lots of magic, good numbers, and one big hero probably would have been really fun.

As fun as bringing a Fell Beast out would be, this list just seemed a little worse than a slightly modified list - and one I thought about bringing to the Winter Whirlwind tournament. Bring on the Barrow-Wights!

Candidate #1 and Tiberius's List: Quest of the Ringbearer Angmar 

Hey look, guys, a display board - check that Hobby Bingo box!

Yep, they were the dishonorable mention last time, so naturally I decided to give them a go this time. I mean, what won't be fun about facing 47 models with a Wild Warg Chieftain and FOUR Barrow-Wights at 600ish points? What, that doesn't sound like fun? Yeah, that was kinda the idea . . .

• Barrow-Wight (Red) [ARMY LEADER]
• 3 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields
• 3 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields and spears
• 2 Angmar Orc Warriors with Orc bows
• 1 Angmar Orc Warrior with Orc bow and spear
• Barrow-Wight (Yellow)
• 3 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields
• 3 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields and spears
• 2 Angmar Orc Warriors with Orc bows
• 1 Angmar Orc Warrior with Orc bow and spear
• Barrow-Wight (Green)
• 3 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields
• 3 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields and spears
• 1 Angmar Orc Warrior with shield, spear, and banner
• 1 Angmar Orc Warrior with Orc bow
• 1 Angmar Warg Rider with shield and throwing spears
• Barrow-Wight (Blue)
• 3 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields
• 2 Angmar Orc Warriors with shields and spears
• 1 Angmar Orc Warrior with shield, spear, and banner
• 2 Angmar Warg Riders with Orc bows
• Wild Warg Chieftain
• 7 Wild Wargs

623pts, 47 models, 9 Orc bows hitting on a 5+ AND 2 throwing spears hitting on a 5+, 4 D6+ models, 3 cavalry AND 8 fast infantry AND 2 Might with Heroic March (with limited applications), 2 Might (with limited applications)

And no, I don't feel great about the negative play experience that might be had by my opponent, but I also have garbage models besides my nasty heroes. The list seems to work well - in most of the pools we're playing, I can pick between at least two scenarios where I can start on the centerline, which made the need for March much less of a need and allowed me to lean harder into Barrow-Wights. My thoughts on each scenario pool (since this tournament has the veto system in play) is as follows - centerline deployment scenarios are in blue:

• Pool 2: Control Missions
• WANT: Breakthrough (because I can focus on being in just two places)
• FINE: Capture and Control (I've got some speed, and this MIGHT allow me to stay in one place)
• VETO: Domination (ain't no way I want this list being in FIVE places)
• Pool 3: Object Missions
• WANT: Retrieval (because it's the only one with kind-of centerline deployment)
• FINE: Seize the Prize (I can be fast with the Warg Chieftain/Wargs - and they don't have to dismount to dig up the prize)
• VETO: Destroy the Supplies (ain't no way I want this list being in three places)
• Pool 4: Slaying Missions
• WANT: Lords of Battle (while my army can hemorrhage models left and right with F3/D4-5, I can also start on the centerline and tear into the enemy quickly - hopefully knocking those big heroes out of commission so they can't rack up a kill count)
• FINE: Contest of Champions (I think I can keep the enemy army leader from getting any kills - and if I can get a few cheeky kills with my Barrow-Wight, I can win)
• VETO: To The Death (while I have two banners and lots of models, having to walk all the way across the board without March doesn't appeal to me that much)
• Pool 5: Get-Somewhere Missions
• WANT: Reconnoitre (I've got a nice pack of Wargs/Warg Riders and LOTS of guys to keep the enemy in place)
• FINE: Storm the Camp (I think I can take the other guy's camp, but it's never a given)
• VETO: Divide and Conquer (walking into the center of the board and arriving second doesn't seem like a winning proposition to me)

Conclusion

So yeah, I'm excited about the tournament - we'll see how it goes - hopefully I don't see any Uruk-Hai. If you have thoughts on armies I should have considered (or thoughts on armies you'd take), drop a note in the comments below! I'll see if I can get a recap in after the tournament (might be a podcast, might be a post - who knows), but until next time, happy hobbying!