Good morning gamers,
Ages ago, Centaur, Rythbyrt, and I did a podcast episode where we talked about the Fall of the Necromancer Legendary Legions and that built into a bigger discussion about all-hero lists (and hero-heavy lists) and what makes them good. The episode has aged a bit, but the general consensus we had at the time was that of the four Legendary Legions released in that supplement, the least interesting was the Pits of Dol Guldur.
After the toning down of the Vanquishers of the Necromancer Legendary Legion, the premiere Legion from that book became the Pits of Dol Guldur Legion. Championed by excellent players like Evan Iverson, a free-Heroic-Combat-each-turn from Azog, paired with a you-win-priority-and-no-
The Pits of Dol Guldur: Changes for 2025
Profile Selection
This list has all of the previous profiles and added a few more (really one more). Like last edition, you have Azog, the Keeper of the Dungeons, and Thrain the Broken as your named heroes and you have Gundabad Orc Captains and Hunter Orc Captains as your generic heroes. While you still have the three previous warrior profiles (Hunter Orcs, Gundabad Orcs, and Fell Wargs), you also have access to both Mirkwood Giant Spiders (good ones) and Mirkwood Hunting Spiders (bad ones), which gives you more strategic options for dealing with enemy heroes.
The list has a mix of cavalry models (Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs got broken out into their own profile now), fast infantry beasts, light infantry (who can be archers, but probably shouldn't be in this list), and heavy infantry. The list doesn't look like it has much in it, but you're covering a lot of bases with a limited number of profiles. Let's see what we've been given as army list special rules in order to incentivize taking this list over other Hobbit-era lists . . .
Army List Bonuses
The army list bonuses are very similar to what the Legendary Legion had last edition - the Surprise Attack special rule was the go-to rule for this list (or at least one of them), which can be used once per game to allow the controlling player to automatically win the roll for priority. Unlike the last edition, this will cancel out (instead of overrule) a Palantir - yaye for that change! It still prevents enemy heroes from declaring Heroic Moves, regardless of whether you auto-claim priority or not (so if your opponent uses a Palantir, you will either move first with everyone if you win the priority roll OR some of your units will move first if you lose the roll and declare a Heroic Move yourself). This is still a strong rule, but I feel like it's a far more fair one (and I don't recall if the previous edition required Azog to be alive or not to use it, but that's now a stipulation, which I feel is also fair).
You still get Resistant to Magic on everyone, which is great for hitter heroes like Azog and the Keeper of the Dungeons, but is also a nice buff for your generic Captains, Thrain, and any banner-carriers/running-with-
Thrain picked up a new rule that allows him to still pass his Shattered Spirit rules when he fails the Intelligence test, so long as he's within 6" of the Keeper of the Dungeons. He won't count as rolling a double (so double-1s and double-2s will count as just-passing, not passing-on-doubles), but he'll still pass. This rule is good if a) you want to take the Keeper of the Dungeons, b) you have Thrain near the Keeper of the Dungeons - in your battle line and not cowering in a corner somewhere, and c) you think failing the Shattered Spirit test is bad. I could take this rule or leave it, but I think having it doesn't make the list worse.
Finally, friendly Orc Warrior models (which is everyone except for the Fell Wargs and Spiders in the list) get +1 To Wound against models with magical powers. This is . . . very niche and also very helpful on a list where all of the Orc Warrior models are S4 (and some of which might have two-handed weapons and/or a LOT of attacks). If your opponent brought Ringwraiths/D7 Elf power heroes (wounded on at least 5s), your traditional D5-6 wizards (wounded on at least 4s) or Galadriel/Arwen/unarmored casters (wounded on at least 3s), you'll be happy you have this rule. Since casters can't be allied willy-nilly into lists anymore, though, there will be quite a few lists where this won't come up at all - and that's also fine.
What is missing from the list this edition is the free Heroic Combats for Azog - and that's a huge setback, in my opinion. While having a you're-gonna-pass rule for Thrain and +1 To Wound for your warriors against magic casters can be great in certain contexts, free Heroic Combats from a F7/S5 hero who was vulnerable to shooting and so wanted to play aggressively and get into combats quickly was a HUGE draw for this list. With the White Warg going down to 2 Might (spoiler alert for what's next), this means Azog in this list has not only gone down from 6 Might to 5 Might (while mounted), but he's also capped at 5 Might for the game, instead of having 7+ Might points (since he'd usually make it into combat at least once). This list doesn't hit as hard with Azog as it used to - maybe it will hit harder with the rest of the crew, but we'll see if that's true when we get to the profiles discussion next . . .
We only have eleven profiles in this list (not including the White Warg) and most of them are probably still worth taking (though many are more expensive this edition and aren't nearly as optimized as they were last edition):
- Azog is both very similar and very different from where he was last edition in this list. On the one hand, his stats are unchanged (picked up a 5+ Intelligence stat), but he stayed at F7 (I think that's fine) in an age where a lot of other people rose to F7 AND he lost his free-heroic-combat rule in this list. Like last edition, he can only take the White Warg as war gear, so he's a bit squishy and the White Warg is only a 2 Might hero now. Still, he's got I Am the Master to whollop heroes reliably, he's got F7/3A with up to 5 Might points to pound through enemy models, and he's got Resistant to Magic in this list to help shrug off enemy magic (which has been my go-to answer to him for a LONG time).
- The Keeper of the Dungeons is slightly punchier this edition now that he has 3 Attacks - with F5 and 3-Might-and-Strike, however, he really does want to focus on smashing through warriors (preferrably of the F4 and below variety) so he can trigger his "Bolg-light" special rule that will give him rerolling 1s/all failed To Wounds and Terror after killing 5 models. If your first two Might points are spent calling two Heroic Combats and killing 5+ models, you might have a Might point left (see what I did there) to ruin a hero's day - but you mostly want to be hitting heroes who are out of Might or who can't Strike higher than you. He's a good punching hero, but I think he's definitely not the second hero you take. Back in the day, you could rely on Azog's Heroic March to get you up the field because he could rely on free Heroic Combats once you got to the enemy. Now that those Heroic Combats aren't free, you should really look into . . .
- Gundabad Orc Captains are 60pts and come with a shield by default - and now that they're F5/S5/D7, they're DEFINITELY a force to be reckoned with. With Ancient Enemies against Dwarves and Elves, you might crack through Dwarf/Elf heroes - but not as quickly as models like Blackshield Captains or Razgush would (since Hatred is WAY better than Ancient Enemies). For 60pts, you get both a strong/resilient profile and access to Heroic March - take at least one of these guys in any list you make! You could also take . . .
- Hunter Orc Captains work a lot like Gundabad Orc Captains, but they a) are only F4, b) they can have 3-4 Attacks when they charge (depending on whether they have a warg or not) instead of 2, and c) they're much squishier at D5 instead of D7. To make up for this, they are 15pts cheaper (45pts each) base, but can be higher than that if they take a warg and/or a two-handed weapon. While you might take an Orc Bow on them in an Azog's Hunters list, I don't think the bows are that useful here.
- Thrain the Broken used to be your only F4 infantry model that could be slotted into your battle lines (besides your March captains) - but he's still rocking the same cost as Gundabad Orc Warriors and he has the potential to be better than them. He's got a lower Defense stat, but also has 2 Wounds/1 Fate point - and he can be a sneaky hero that you can leave behind your lines as the hero you need to protect, so that's pretty cool. I would take him all the time - and I don't think you have to take the Keeper if you want to take him, even though there's a rule about that combo in the army special rules. He doesn't become F6 this edition on a turn when he passes his Intelligence check on a double-value for his Shattered Spirit rule, which is not nearly as good as it used to be, but being F4/S4/3A is still nothing to sneeze at.
- Fell Wargs picked up the Beast keyword, which means they can't be used to dig up objectives and carry them anymore - which is a shame, since that was one of the best things they could do in the last edition. With Fell Sight, though, it's pretty easy to keep them out of harm's way and still be able to charge vulnerable enemy units. I've lost guys to these models and I've killed them in droves - take some and be careful with them!
- Hunter Orcs and Hunter Orc Warg Riders went up in price and . . . basically got hit hard in this edition. For 8pts each, they might have 2 Attacks (if they charge - and that's 3 Attacks for the mounted variants) instead of always having 2 Attacks (while they had the infantry keyword). The cavalry definitely did better this edition than their infantry cousins, since they went down in price by 1pt (so they stayed the same once you give them a piece of gear) and they can have 3 Attacks when they charge. They're still F3 and they're going to struggle to get a banner reroll, but if they can charge a single model, they're quite dangerous (and still hit very hard). With the changes that were made to two-handing, I'd at least consdier giving them two-handed weapons because they have a decent shot at getting a natural 6 on three dice (42% chance - not great, but also not bad). The infantry should probably be run without gear to keep their cost down, but you can still use them as foot-archers if you want to.
- Gundabad Orc Warriors went up in cost by 1pt/model to gain F4 (definitely a good trade) and lost the option for both a shield and spear (sigh). Still, they're F4/S4 models with decent Courage - though I think they're worse than Isengard Uruk-Hai Warriors, who get Shieldwall instead of Ancient Enemies (one could make the argument that shieldwall is not usable by most of the Uruk-Hai you'll be taking, but Ancient Enemies may never come up at all, so . . . ).
- Mirkwood Giant Spiders are confusing - mostly because the "Giant Spiders" of the last edition are now the "Hunting Spiders" (more on them next) and the "Mirkwood Spiders" of the last edition are now the "Giant Spiders". I get that the bases of these spiders is bigger than the other ones but . . . seriously?!?!?!? Anyway, these guys still shoot webs on a 5+ and that's primarily what they were and are good for: forcing enemy models to spend Fate points (no roll to get a 4+ required) or be Paralyzed. Azog and others feel really good about going into a fight that they're going to win by default - and these guys go a long way to helping you win those fights easily. They are a bit expensive and F2 isn't great, but having a few is a great idea.
- Mirkwood Hunting Spiders are 20pts (like they were last edition), they're only F3, and they're not any better than the Mirkwood Giant Spiders . . . leave these guys at home and run the other ones, guys.
That's the list - and there are a few stand-out profiles for me, but on the whole, I think there's enough to work with, but the list has largely been toned down from where it was last edition. Let's see what this list does well and where it will struggle . . .
The Pits of Dol Guldur: Strengths and Weaknesses
I think the first thing to note about this list is that everything hits hard. Even the Mirkwood Giant Spiders that I'm not hot on are 2 Attacks/S5 with poison, so when they win fights (if they win fights), they hit hard. Your warrior options are at least S4, the heroes are largely S5, and the Keeper/Azog have bonus wounding capabilities that make them excellent at hacking through enemy models. With Hunter Orcs, Spiders, and the heroes having access to 2+ Attacks and the Gundabads being able to spear-support, you have the potential for a lot of Attacks directed into the enemy and rolling more dice gives you a higher probability of getting a natural 6 on the dueling roll, which is great for triggering that high Strength stat.
There's a downside to this, of course: the list is generally light on defense. The Gundabad Orcs are D5-6, but your fast units (D3 Spiders, D4 Fell Wargs/Hunter Orcs, D5 Azog/White Warg) are definitely vulnerable to archery and melee damage if they lose fights. I've had to fight a lot of Spiders, Wargs, and Warg Riders in my day (thanks primarily to Centaur, Rythbyrt, and all of Rythbyrt's sons) and I'll say that if you can just beat them in fights, they can not only go down in a single turn, but they can also leave a gaping hole in your battle line. The list can get to D7 on the Gundabad Orc Captains, but everything else is likely to be living in the D4-6 (with a heavy lean towards D4-5 between Hunter Orcs and Gundabad Orc Warriors with spears). This is fine, by the way, but also a limitation of the list.
When it comes to speed, this list has a lot of fast options - but they're usually expensive. This is both a positive and negative, really - you have access to Fell Wargs who are 8pts each and are easily your worst "fast" units. With the beast keyword, their ability to interact with objectives is greatly diminished from last edition, but they can still stake out an objective or run off the board, so . . . still valuable units? Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs are 15-16pts each, which isn't bad for cavalry, but with D4 riders on D4 mounts, they're a bit expensive compared to the D4 riders you'll find in the Harad-based lists (and are a bit expensive compared to D5-6 mounted warriors in the Rohan/Minas Tirith-based lists). Your spiders are 20pts/model, which is quite expensive - but with 2 Attacks base (instead of 2 Attacks on the charge) and with the ability to Paralyze enemy models (on the good ones, that is), we don't want these units being too cheap, right?
Finally, this list has had most of its units go up in points this edition (+1pt/model for Hunter Orcs, +1pt/model for Gundabad Orcs, +10pts for Azog), which means you're going to be a bit capped for models if you want to get all of the toys in your list. The lists we've been looking at recently have met/superceded the expected 1 model/20pts in your points limit rule of thumb (e.g. 30 models at 600pts), but this list is likely to barely meet that, as you'll see in the lists at the end of the post. Having generic heroes who are pretty cheap helps with this a bit, but Azog is going to run you 225pts with the White Warg, a banner guy is going to run you another 35pts, and you want at least one generic Captain for 55-60pts, so you need to bring ~26 Gundabad Orcs/Hunter Orcs - not including spiders, who cost 20pts each - to balance that out and reach a "good numbers" level (and that's basically going to fill your warbands). If this list is playing below the expected model count, you really need to hit hard fast because of the vulnerability of your troops.
Okay, let's talk through some strategies . . .
The Pits of Dol Guldur: Strategies for the Tabletop
Like we did last edition, we need to start off by talking about Azog. While Azog is still one of the big nastiest in this edition, his role in this list has changed substantially. With only 5 Might points, he can't be Heroic Combatting through the enemy ranks at will anymore, so you have to be considerate of how you use his Might points. With F7 in an era where Heroic Strike only boosts you by D3 Fight Value, he's capable of reaching Fight 10, but most importantly, he's automatically going to reach F8 when he performs a Heroic Strike (so a F5-and-Strike hero has to get a 5+ on his Strike roll and Azog has to get a 1-2 on his Strike roll in order for the Fight Values to equal out). Since he wounds all enemy heroes on a 3+, he's quite likely to convert a won fight into a wounded/dead hero. As such, you want his Might ot be used to get him into the fights he wants - that might mean Heroic Combats through warriors near the hero, but you always want to be pushing towards heroes so you can finish them off. Of course, the best fights against heroes are the ones you're guaranteed to win - and to do that, you probably want to bring a few friends to help Azog out.
Enter the Mirkwood Giant Spiders (who we will be calling "web-spiders" from here on out to avoid confusion). These guys have always been good in any list that you can bring them in - their webs are "shot" on a 5+ if they stand still (rarely ever) or if they're charging (more common) and on a 6+ if they're moving and shooting (which is also pretty common). Depending on what your definition of "reliable" is (my rule of thumb is a 70% chance of success), this means that you probably want to have 3-7 of these guys in your list - though getting 7 of them always seems an elusive target for me. Getting 3 is pretty doable at most points levels if you don't mind cutting into your already-low model count (or if you leave the Keeper at home). If you're relying on charging enemy models and paralyzing them on the way in, keep in mind that a) any hero with 1 Fate point won't be Paralyzed even if you successfully cast the web (since any spent Fate - not a passed Fate roll - will block the web), b) any Spider who fails to cast the web on the way in is guaranteed to fight said hero and might be dead after the combat round, and c) any Spider who tries to cast the web during a charge has a chance of hitting one of your own models if the target model is already engaged. Taking multiple spiders to shoot at one target usually means you have to orbit around your prey, while having your spiders charge into models usually means you're going after several key units.
Hunter Orc Warg Riders are better this edition and you probably want to have a few of them around to interact with objectives and remove cavalry charge bonuses from enemy units. They can also keep up with Azog and are useful in pulling off enemy heroes and can have 3 Attacks on the charge if they have to fight enemy infantry. As was mentioned above, these guys don't want to ram directly into a shieldwall (where they're F3 and even/lower number of Attacks puts them at a distinct disadvantage), but if they can wrap around to fight a single spearman (or the spearman and shieldman at the end of a battle line), they have a much better chance of surviving to fight in the following round. Use these guys in concert with your battle line or Azog himself to make sure they are still on-hand when you need them!
As we move from Azog's hit-squad to your battle line, I mentioned above that you probably want to take a Gundabad Orc Captain (or a mounted Hunter Orc Captain) before you take the Keeper of the Dungeons. The Keeper is a hard-hitting unit, but as was also mentioned above, you really want him tackling warriors at first (where his F5 will usually be good enough and so he can rack up special rules as quickly as possible). If you're able to Heroic Combat off of two enemies into two more enemies, your first attack will include your base stats of F5/3A (ideally with 1 additional Attack die from a spearman) with S5/3A/Burly to crack through their defense (and ideally with 1 additional Attack die from the spearman). If that combat goes off, then you'll get to reroll 1s To Wound to make up for not having a spearman in your second fight. If that fight results in two more dead models, you'll have Terror - which might be very useful in keeping yourself from being counter-charged. The sneaky thing is that if you can get 4 kills in the first turn of combat, you don't HAVE to Heroic Combat anymore, unless you want the movement - a single kill (maybe a model that was sent to tie you down?) will trigger the reroll all failed To Wound rolls (though you might want to perform a second Heroic Combat if you really need to clear out guys). At the end of the day, though, this guy just hits stuff - that's all he does. He's not more maneuverable than a Gundabad Captain (and he's less maneuverable than a Hunter Orc Captain) and he kills stuff - that's good, but it's also something you don't necessarily need at low points levels.
Thrain, on the other hand, Thrain the Broken is brilliant. Like last edition, he can be a F4/1A model to flesh out your battle line (for the same cost as a Gundabad Orc Warrior with shield). If you're playing a scenario where you need to keep someone alive (or your opponent needs to kill someone), he might be a very tempting target - so he's blessedly cheap enough that you can just leave him in the back if you want. On the random turns (1/9 times/game, or maybe once per game), he'll get an improved combat profile of F4/S4/3A/Fearless, which is good for a random bloke in the battle line. I think he's great and I don't think there's a good reason for omitting him from your list.
Finally, we need to talk about whether to bring a shieldwall or a knife-wall in your list. While you can certainly have one of each, you probably want to focus your list on either a) having 10pt Gundabad Orc Warriors with shields backed by 10pt Gundabad Orc Warriors with spears (a shieldwall) or b) having 8-9pt Hunter Orcs (with or without two-handed weapons) backed by 10pt Gundabad Orc Warriors. The costs are basically the same, but the Gundabads will give you +2 Defense and +1 Fight Value instead of +1 Attack on turns that you charge. Put that way, the Gundabads are probably the no-brainer choice, but I will note that committing to Gunadabads puts you in a really tough spot when it comes to model count in your list - and while Gundabads with shields will hold up longer to most enemy punishment, they will NOT carve through things quite as quickly as S4/2 Attack Hunter Orcs will (especially if they have two-handed weapons). You'll see lists below that do feature both, but I'll make notes about how you can modify the lists to run all-Gundabads and you'll see what the trades actually are. I will say that in general, I think the knife-wall plays the best into the strengths of the list (and is FAR cheaper to collect the actual models for), but the big take-away is definitely that you need the Gundabad spearman to make either of these strategies work (you want the F4 for the Hunter Orcs and you need the extra dice with killing potential for the Gundabad shields).
The actual last note (which is more of a parenthetical) is that you probably shouldn't take Orc bows in this list. Despite having a default Shoot Value of a 4+ in this edition, you're not going to get enough bows in this list (once you take mounted guys and Gundabad spears) to make the volume of S2 archery worth it. If you want to shoot with Hunter Orcs, run Azog's Hunters (where you get a 50% bow limit and access to a lot of cheap supporting heroes). Any bowmen who are embedded in your battle line are going to either slow the battle line down (not great in this list) or will not be shooting. If you happen to want a few honesty bows in the lists provided below, you can swap them for two-handed weapons - but the lists below would not give you more than five, so I'd skip on them entirely (though I will make one recommendation for bows in the final list).
Okay, let's talk lists!
Sample Lists
We're starting things off at 500pts - on the one hand, this is a good points level for this list, since a) you're probably going to be close to your opponent's model count, no matter what he runs, and b) your opponent is unlikely to have too much that can deal with Azog supported by two Web-Spiders. On the other hand, we've got 19 models in the list with a predominantly D4 frontline (you can trade out the Hunter Orcs for Gundabads if you want to drop the Fell Warg):
I feel better about the model count (though still not great) when we go up to 650pts - this list adds the Keeper of the Dungeons and gets to 26 models (you can drop the two-handed weapons on the Warg Riders if you want to upgrade the Hunter Orcs with two-handed weapons into Gundabad Orcs with shields OR you could drop the two-handed weapons on the infantry Hunter Orcs and downgrade all of the Gundabad Orc Warriors with shields to add a Fell Warg/Hunter Orc to Azog's warband):
At 750pts, we are once again shy of a good model count - there are certainly ways we could get there, but I opted for "adding more bodies" to the last list (one more web-spider and 8 more Gundabads for +100pts). All in all, not terrible (but again, pretty low on points - you can do the drop-the-two-handers-to-get-
Conclusion
This list still heavily focuses on achieving a powerful attack in one turn, then securing priority to attack again on the following turn without risk of immediate reprisals. If you're allowed to do that, you're going to be in a very strong position; if not, you're gonna be hurting. In many ways, this is a skew list like no other, relying on a once-per-game ability similar to lists like the Riders of Theoden, except that the planning is not focused around the turn you use it - it's about the turn BEFORE the turn you use it. If you enjoy using this list, let us know in the comments below! Next time, we're sticking around the dead city of Dol Guldur to see what other evils are lurking about. We'll be looking at list that still remains one of the strongest Evil Hobbit-era lists in the game next time, and until then, happy hobbying!
