The Road to the TMAT GT 2025 - Tiberius's List

Good morning gamers,

I've been busy for the past few months (not too busy to write, but my weekends have been taken up by a TON of things), so I was happily surprised when Red Jacket reached out to us and scheduled our GT for the year. It's not every day that I attend a tournament without having to do any of the planning, so I was excited to figure out what list I'd be bringing. The tournament will be a three-round, random-pairing tournament with assignments being made before the first round is played. The pools will be #2 (multiple objectives), #4 (killing things), and #3 (objects).

This tournament will also be the last hoorah of the old edition (while we wait for the Armies of Middle-Earth supplement - and possibly the Legacies of Middle-Earth document - to drop), so when picking my list, I was first and foremost interested in running lists that don't appear to be valid lists in the new edition. There is a prohibition on Impossible Alliances at this event (so Floi can't be run with Bombur this time), but there were still plenty of lists that I wanted to run. Without further ado, here are the lists that I considered for the event (and the one I locked into running)!

Honorable Mention: Isengard

Years ago, I stepped out of a tournament that Red Jacket threw so my son could take his first step into our gaming community. It was the first time that any of our kids had participated in an event and I offered to be his coach (and sub in if he got tired). He got a little overwhelmed by the end of the last game, but he also had a lot of fun and played well. The list I almost took to that event was a 750-point version of the list below - and so naturally, I considered taking a list like that, since a) I never actually ran Saruman in one of our events under the 2018 MESBG revamp because I dropped, and b) because the list felt really, really strong:

• Saruman [ARMY LEADER]
• INDEPENDENT: Grima Wormtongue (or in an enemy warband)
• INDEPENDENT: Uruk-Hai Drummer
• 8 Uruk-Hai Warriors with shields
• 7 Uruk-Hai Warriors with pikes
• 1 Uruk-Hai Warrior with pike and banner
• Thrydan Wolfsbane on horse
• 4 Uruk-Hai Berserkers
• 4 Uruk-Hai Warriors with pikes
• Mauhur
• 12 Uruk-Hai Marauders with Uruk-Hai bows

The thing is . . . this list is basically a Muster of Isengard list in the new edition. Yes, I need to swap out Thrydan/Mauhur for Uruk-Hai Captains/more guys and I can't upgrade the Uruk-Hai Scouts with Uruk-Hai bows to Marauders to boost their movement (but will have an extra guy out of it), but this is the kind of list that I can run now without having to "waste" a throw-back event moment. So as much as it pains me to admit that this is the list I probably should run, I'm not going to run it. Don't worry, my dear Uruk-Hai boyz, I'll bring you out to play this edition, I promise.

Pick #5: Lothlorien Pajama Party

This list is a variant of a list I took to a GT a few years ago - but it's got Celeborn and the Mirror of Galadriel instead of Haldir and a few guys. The "pajama party" doesn't work quite like it used to, since the current edition of the game slaps half of the throwing daggers off the Wood Elf Warriors (now Lothlorien Warriors), but it is harder to shoot when you don't have cover thanks to changes with Elven cloaks. This list also has a mounted Galadhrim Captain and some Galadhrim Knights, who are not currently in the Lothlorien list, so this would be something I can't run now (that and Celeborn has a weapon and heavy armor):

• Galadriel with the Mirror of Galadriel [ARMY LEADER]
• 1 Wood Elf Warrior with Wood Elf spear and throwing daggers
• 9 Wood Elf Warriors with Elf bows
• Celeborn with Elven-made hand-and-a-half sword and heavy armor
• 3 Galadhrim Knights with Elf bows
• 4 Wood Elf Warriors with throwing daggers
• 4 Wood Elf Warriors with throwing daggers and Wood Elf spears
• 1 Wood Elf Warrior with Wood Elf spear and banner
• Galadhrim Captain on armored horse with shield and Elf bow
• 6 Wood Elf Warriors with throwing daggers
• 6 Wood Elf Warriors with throwing daggers and Wood Elf spears

The Lothlorien list in the new edition certainly can't run this way, but it can also do things that this list cannot do. While the new Armies of Middle-Earth supplement does not appear to have a Lothlorien army list, Galadhrim Knights were not listed as moving to the Legacies document, so I assume they'll be provided in the Armies of Middle-Earth book but be added to the Lothlorien army list (kind of like models released in the supplements of the last edition were said to be included in existing factions - like Anborn/Mablung being included in Minas Tirith lists). We'll see how all this shapes up, but I'm reasonably certain that once the new book drops, I'll be able to run a list like this. So . . . in the bin it goes for this event.

Pick #4: The Shire and Friends

Okay, I never REALLY considered taking this list, but I'll be honest: I've played with it once and had a REALLY good time with it! Tom and Goldberry weren't transitioned to the Legacy document, so that means they're going to be in the new book (and I hope will be stapled to the Road to Rivendell army list - PLEASE DO THAT, GW!), but running them with Gandalf and a LOAD of Hobbits will never be an option . . . and that's exactly what this list is:

• Gandalf the Grey on horse [ARMY LEADER]
• 14 Hobbit Archers
• 1 Hobbit Militia
• Holfoot Bracegirdle, Shirriff-Leader
• 8 Hobbit Shirriffs
• Robin Smallburrow, Hobbit Shirriff
• 5 Hobbit Shirriffs
• 3 Hobbit Militia
• Farmer Maggot
• Grip, Fang, and Wolf
• 6 Hobbit Militia
• CONVENIENT ALLY - The Wanderers in the Wild: Barliman Butterbur
• Bill the Pony
• CONVENIENT ALLY - The Wanderers in the Wild: Tom Bombadil
• Goldberry

Do you know what the problems are with this list? No spears, reasonably bad Fight Value, universally bad Defense, and while there are options for shutting down enemy heroes out the wazoo, dealing with grunt-heavy lists is basically a shoot-and-pray kind of game. While there are two auto-pass-courage-test bubbles in this list and ways to get resources back on Gandalf/the March heroes as they get the army positioned/protect them from all harm, there's also not a lot of options against shieldwalls. I expect to run into at least one of those, so this list is not gonna be used this time. But . . . it is really fun.

Pick #3: The Deeping Wall

I've talked about this list within the last year - and like the Hobbit list, it's also really fun to play. It's also got an absurd number of Elves and while I could have gotten an extra guy in the list, I opted to NOT follow my thematic list building advice and I took a bunch of spears. Blame me for selling out if you must, but it seemed like a good idea:

• Aragorn - Strider with armor [ARMY LEADER]
• CONVENIENT ALLY - The Halls of Thranduil: Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood
• 10 Mirkwood Elves
• 5 Mirkwood Elves with Elf bows
• HISTORICAL CONVENIENT ALLY - Lothlorien: Haldir with Elf bow and heavy armor
• 12 Galadhrim Warriors with spears
• 1 Galadhrim Warrior with spear and banner
• 1 Galadhrim Warrior with Elf bow
• 1 Galadhrim Warrior with Elf bow and spear
• HISTORICAL CONVENIENT ALLY - Lothlorien: Galadhrim Captain with Elf bow
• 3 Galadhrim Warriors with Elf bows
• 2 Galadhrim Warriors with Elf bows and spears

Getting +1 guy at the cost of 9 spears might be lost in the mix in the long run, but the idea of the list is simple: I've got 39 models, 18 Elf bow shots a turn (or 16 Elf bow shots with Legolas shooting a single arrow), Aragorn for maneuvering early-game and forcing Might out in a variety of ways in the mid/late game, and no real reason to engage in any of the Pool 4 scenarios (since we can veto Contest). Camping in the middle and two side objectives in Pool 2 scenarios (since we can veto Breakthrough) and racing to the objectives with our melee guys while Legolas/Haldir/all the other bows lay down fire in Destroy the Supplies or Seize the Prize (since we can veto Retrieval), I'm feeling confident we could do alright given our scenario pack.

However . . . this is a decent-sized D5 list - and while F5 will help us some, this is a list that doesn't really have an answer to other shooting lists. If we get in a shootout, we very well might be able to win - but shootouts are fickle and you never really know how they're going to go. So . . . I opted to leave this list at home (the actual list I'm taking has a lot of shooting too, but also has anti-archery stuff in it). This led to me having two lists I heavily considered taking - and the one that just barely lost out was . . .

Pick #2: Pure Mordor Soup

I'll start off by saying that you're going to see a Witch-King on Fell Beast - I heavily considered taking the Shadow Lord instead for the anti-archery thing I just mentioned. Regardless of which one you take, I've defended Mordor Trolls, Mordor Uruk-Hai, and Morannon Orc Captains on this blog and so I figured since I can't take Mordor Uruk-Hai with Morannons/Trolls anymore, it might be nice to give one last huzzah with the models I've worked so hard to defend - and the list hits surprisingly hard:

• The Witch-King of Angmar on Fell Beast with the Crown of Morgul and 3M/13W/2F [ARMY LEADER]
• 6 Mordor Uruk-Hai with Orc bows
• 3 Mordor Uruk-Hai with Orc bows and two-handed maces
• 8 Morannon Orcs with shields and spears
• 1 Morannon Orc with shield, spear, and banner
• Morannon Orc Captain with shield
• 5 Morannon Orcs with shields
• 6 Morannon Orcs with spears
• Morannon Orc Captain with shield
• 5 Mordor Uruk-Hai with Orc bows
• 2 Morannon Orcs with spears
• 4 Morannon Orcs with spears and shields
• 1 Mordor Troll with war drum

You can get cheaper, less-scary bows with Orc Trackers - I know. You can get a Terror-causing, higher-Defense front line with Black Numenoreans - I know. You can get a lot of utility out of Suladan with a banner instead of an Orc with a banner - I know. All of this would be legal for the tournament I'm going to - I know. 

But I'm Tiberius - I write articles on the internet and dabble with things that no one else does, so this is my Mordor list. It's also really good - everyone is at least S4, so any of my opponents who pay for D6 are wasting points. It doesn't auto-pass Courage tests, but the "front line" Uruk-Hai can also shoot at Terror walls, which very few can do effectively back at us. The Witch-King gives us a smashy scalpel piece that has to be dealt with (and that usually has to pay extra for the armored Fell Beast in the new edition), so that's a thing. Oh, and we can move 12" in a single turn with a Heroic March and a war drum, so we're not THAT worried about archery (even in Pool 4).

Ultimately, however, this is a C2-3 army, so what I was looking for was an army that could pass courage tests well, resist enemy archery, shoot a lot in return, have a good bit of S4 to deal with enemy shieldwalls, and also have some tricks in it that go beyond this to really mess with my opponent's battle plans (sort of like I got to do with Floi at our last GT). So for that . . . I found a hidden gem that feels like a soup list, but is surprisingly a historical alliance and therefore legal for our event. I give you . . .

Pick #1 and Tiberius's List: An Unconventional Last Alliance List

This list has elements of all of the lists we've already seen - a smashy hero (potentially smashier than the Witch-King and definitely smashier than Anduril-less Aragorn), good anti-archery (and cheaper than Gandalf or Galadriel), lots of throwing weapons (on Wood Elf Warriors, no less!), auto-passing courage tests (like Tom and Goldberry), lots of bows (12 is pretty good), and . . . a Ringbearer. Oh, and it's historical and technically a Last Alliance list because of a very small technicality:

• Elendil, High King of Gondor and Arnor on horse with shield [ARMY LEADER]
• 7 Warriors of Numenor with shields
• 4 Warriors of Numenor with shields and spears
• 1 Warrior of Numenor with shield, spear, and banner
• 6 Warriors of Numenor with bows
• HISTORICAL ALLY - Rivendell: Gildor Inglorion
• 12 Noldorin Exiles with throwing daggers and Wood Elf spears
• HISTORICAL ALLY - Rivendell: Cirdan
• 3 High Elf Warriors with Elf bows
• 3 High Elf Warriors with Elf bows and spears
• HISTORICAL ALLY - Bilbo Baggins with the One Ring and Sting

If you read Gil-Galad's profile, he makes your list Impossible with all armies and makes you forego your so-so army bonus if you take him with people from the Rivendell army list that weren't alive before his death - namely, the twins, Arwen, Lindir, and Bilbo Baggins. If you take Gil-Galad, your only historical ally is Numenor and your only convenient allies are Elf factions, Fangorn, and the Misty Mountains. If you're taking Gil-Galad, your list options are quite small.

But if you leave him at home and take Elendil, you are historical allies with Rivendell without any of the who-was-alive-when restrictions. As a result, I can run Elendil and a full warband of Numenoreans with a Hero of Fortitude and as many Minor/Independent heroes as I want! With all my tinkering of Last Alliance builds (and previous options that Isildur is better than Elendil aside), why did I take this list? Well, let's walk through why I can't do something like this in the new edition . . .

Elendil is pretty different in the new edition - no horse means those Heroic Combats have small threat ranges and no shield means one good S3 bow volley could result in lost VPs. In this list, he has both of these upgrades and is pretty difficult to deal with if he keeps his horse under him. He's bringing a bunch of S4 Numenoreans to the mix and they're pretty reliable at backing up Elves (or in this case, standing in front of Elves).

Gildor and the Noldorin Exiles have been sent to the Undying Lands of the Legacies document, which doesn't have a release date (and since there's no profit from it, there's also no incentive to rush the Legacies document's release . . . hopefully it's not too delayed). They're also fast units that are cheaper than cavalry, the Exiles can all shield, the Exiles can all support, and the Exiles can all shoot with throwing weapons. They're squishy, but they're also strong and I love them.

Cirdan is apparently not bad in the new edition, but he's also not the same. Blinding Light all game is good when you need it, Aura of Dismay that gives you Terror instead of a 6" Harbinger of Evil is usually good in any matchup, and Aura of Command (actually HAVING that spell) isn't hard to cast and auto-defeats Terror walls that can't Sap Will. Call Winds in the new edition is interesting, but it's not auric. Some of the Elves Cirdan is leading have spears and bows, which is a combo I really like, but is also not allowed anymore.

Finally, we have Bilbo - dear, dear Bilbo. Because of a technicality, I can include him historically with Elendil, which is the only way Elendil can benefit from the Ring (because old edition rules) without being Impossible Allies. Bilbo is cheap and also brings Elendil the Elven-made keyword that he lacks - if you can get both of these guys in the same fight, you should be okay. As it happens, Bilbo being able to tag-team in with big heroes while wearing the Ring is one of the few things about this list that didn't change in the new edition - he just can't do it with Elendil.

Conclusion

So yes, I'm saying goodbye to the old edition with some models I've never run in lists during the edition before (and my first game in the MESBG revamp was actually a low-points game with Elendil and a bunch of guys - basically the warband that I'm bringing). While I'm sad that I didn't run my Deeping Wall list or my Mordor Soup list in any of our events, I'm hopeful that I can get something like those on the tabletop in the new edition (with some alterations applied, of course). Who knows - maybe we'll do another throw-back event in the future and I can run them then! We'll see how this goes - and hopefully you've enjoyed this nostalgic moment of list building under the old rules. Until next time, happy hobbying!