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Monday, April 15, 2024

Nemesis: How to Fight Against Isildur

Good morning gamers,

This year in this series, we've looked at Gil-Galad, Elendil, and Elrond as the major heroes from the Last Alliance (well, and Bill Ferny) - today, we're wrapping up the quadrivium of heroes by covering the cheapest and potentially most difficult to deal with of the lot: Isildur. This guy can be crazy good - and he can also let you know (or at least, mine has let me down a time or twelve). Isildur is a bit of an odd choice for this series, since he's the first model that I'm not only covering here in Nemesis (as a model that you can hate fighting on the other side of the table) AND a model we've previously covered in our In Defense Of series (as a model that gets critique for not being good enough by some players). Isildur is a bit of a polarizing piece, either shredding your army and best heroes to bits or underperforming and seeming inferior to his dad (and sometimes multiple captains).

Recently, Evan Iverson has had some international success with Isildur (allied with some friends that aren't Rivendell to help maximize his benefits) and so we're going to look today at what you can do to help fight against Isildur and make him pay if he shows up on the other side of the board. Let's see what all the fuss is about this guy first . . .

What Makes Isildur So Hated?

For starters, Isildur is usually fielded without Elendil so that he has the One Ring. Isildur is the only Ringbearer who follows the rules for the One Ring and has innate F6, which will give him a higher FV than most other models who can engage him (more on this later). Since he's the second model in the hierarchy for getting the Ring (only behind Sauron) and since you have full control over whether you have Elendil (and eventually Anarion) in your list, you are very likely to have the Ring if you take Isildur - and as I've discussed before (several times, actually, to include an article in our Back to Basics series), there are some really powerful things you can do with the One Ring.

Photo Credit: The Armies of the Lord of the Rings

Before he puts the Ring on, Isildur is still a powerhouse hero with F6/S5/3A, access to a horse, and 3-Might-and-Strike. By any hero's reckoning, this is a great offensive profile - and while there are heroes who can have more Might than Isildur, the presence of the Ring often means that he needs to spend his Might less for calling heroic actions and can use it more for passing the two things that actually matter: dueling rolls and Ring tests.

On Defense, Isildur is no slouch either - he's D7 or D8, depending on whether you bought the shield and choose to two-hand, he's got 3 Wounds/2 Fate, which is pretty beefy for a man-sized hero, and he's got 2 Will and Resistant to Magic thanks to the Blood of Numenor rule (and always being within 6" of himself), which makes him as good or better than most combat heroes at resisting magical powers. With C6-7 depending on whether you have your army bonus or not (and potentially C8 if you ally him into an army with a War Horn), Isildur is pretty punchy and very difficult to deal with.

While Numenor doesn't have a lot of alliance choices, the allies that it has are quite good. You can ally Historically with Rivendell, which gives you access to both beater heroes like Gil-Galad, Elrond, and Glorfindel (as well as some timeline-defying alliances with Elladan/Elrohir) and tactical heroes, like Cirdan, Gildor Inglorion, and a timeline-defying Arwen. If you're willing to lose the +1 Courage from your army bonus (I'd be okay with it), you can also ally Conveniently with Lothlorien (which requires the inclusion of Haldir, Celeborn, or Galadriel - but gets you excellent troop choices, to include Guards of the Galadhrim court, Galadhrim Warriors, and Galadhrim Knights) or Thranduil's Halls (which requires the inclusion of Thranduil or Legolas and also gives you excellent troop choices, like Palace Guards if you brought Thranduil or Mirkwood Elves if you brought Legolas). 

You can also ally conveniently with Ents (requires Treebeard) and Eagles (requires Gwaihir), which can give you a beater hero who isn't Isildur (and will probably be a more resilient army leader anyway), but not a lot in the model count department - though honestly, you can field Isildur and a Captain of Numenor for around 200pts, so your Numenor contingent can get to nearly 30 models at 500 points, so you might have room for an extra Ent or an Eagle as well if you're playing at 700-800 points. I wouldn't risk an Impossible Alliance just to get Isildur in the list - you certainly CAN do that, but Isildur usually wants to benefit from having a banner and he'd need to bring one along if he wants its reroll with an Impossible Alliance.

With such a cheap hero (fully kitted out, he's only 135 points), what can you possibly do to fight against him? Well, let's take a second look at his profile and see where his weaknesses are . . .

How Do You Fight Back Against Isildur?

As we've said so many times in this series, if you can get D8 troops in your army, you'll be feeling good. S5 is great on Isildur and makes up for not getting a free +1 To Wound (though his dad gets both), but D8 is going to be wounded on 6s by Isildur - and if he's not mounted and on the charge, that's going to be hard to chop through. Even if he two-hands and wounds on 5s, he's only supposed to deal 1 wound each turn while wearing the Ring (since that requires him to be on foot). This has been a recurring theme for dealing with Elendil, Gil-Galad, and Elrond - and Isildur suffers from a similar problem (and like Elrond - but not Gil-Galad and Elendil - the lack of a free +1 To Wound makes dealing with D8+ models very tricky for him, and all the more so because he can't benefit from the Ring and a mount at the same time).

You can also deal with Isildur (when he has his Ring on) with units that deal impact damage and don't need to charge-in-order-to-charge him, such as chariots or war beasts. Normally, you have to pass a Courage test with a -1 penalty for each full inch between you and the Ringbearer, but chariots and war beasts can walk into Isildur and he still takes the hits. We'll talk about chariots a little later, but war beasts are generally not worried about being killed straight-up by Isildur, especially if they're Mumaks.

Third, there are some units - besides Ringbearers - who can half the Fight Value of their foes, and if you can get any of these guys into a Ringbearer, you can make the fight level-out at F5 for both sides, which is CRAZY good. These models are hard to deal with by most things in the game, but if you're used to just putting the Ring on and automatically having the higher Fight Value, this is a stunning surprise.

Finally, there are some models that ignore the benefits of the One Ring - to include both the Fight Value reduction AND the immunity to magical powers. For the most part, these units are Ringwraiths - and they get the added bonus of not having to spend Will for the Will of Evil when they fight a model with the Ring on. If you're playing with a Forces of Evil army, it's actually not that hard to disincentivize the use of the One Ring, because a well-timed Transfix can keep Isildur from doing anything - and he cannot hide from them.

Okay, let's get into what models you can use to fight Isildur . . .

Tiberius's Top 5 Models To Counter Isildur

Before we get into the list proper, I'm going to cover the honorable and dishonorable mentions (like I always do) for beating Isildur. I wasn't really sure where these guys would fall on the list, for reasons you'll see in a moment, but there's no doubt they'll slow Isildur down if you happen to like running them.

Honorable Mention: The Dark Lord Sauron

I think this one goes without saying - if Isildur doesn't have the Ring, he's a "fine" hero, but not a particularly dangerous one. The only way to make sure Isildur won't have the One Ring is to bring Sauron (because in the main, you can expect that the other player isn't going to bring both Isildur and Elendil in the same list - not when he could ally in a big hero from any of the five historical/convenient alliance options Numenor has). 

Sauron can pick through the 2 Will/Resistant to Magic that Isildur has starting from 18" away and if he starts with a 3+ Compel to make him move away from the action and then switches to a 4+ Chill Sould to work through his wounds, Sauron may not even have to FIGHT Isildur before taking him out (which is good, because he will probably have to deal with whatever friend Isildur brought to the fight as well).

Sauron's a good choice - and honestly, he might even be the BEST choice - but he's also got some pretty hefty alliance restrictions and costs a LOT of points. If you want to play dirty, of course, you turn to . . .

Dishonorable Mention: D8 models (especially warriors of the Dead)

You're probably tired of me saying this, but D8 models are great against S5 models. Unlike Elendil (who you have to assume is on the charge), Isildur is likely to dismount at some point in the game - so if you have D8 from shieldwall, chances are good you'll get to use it eventually and blunt his attacks. If you're one of those models who has D8 innately (no special rules required), you have a lot more flexibility in dealing with Isildur.

Warriors of the Dead are particularly good here - unless Isildur has Cirdan at his back (or Celeborn), he needs to test for Terror to charge these guys. He's likely to pass his test, but if he rolls poorly, he'll be dumping Will to keep the damage train going (and eventually, that'll be Might if he gets a slew of bad rolls). Once he engages, he'll be wounded against his Courage if he loses (probably with a -1 penalty from Harbinger of Evil on the King of the Dead, which will only make a difference for the base troops if Isildur allied conveniently) or will wound the Warriors of the Dead on 6s if he wins (5s if he two-hands).

But what's really great about these guys is that with C6 on each of the warriors, they can pass their courage tests to charge Isildur while he's wearing the Ring quite reliably from 2-3" away. Tagging him with one guy (and it's a toss-up whether Isildur can even kill that one guy) is a good way to reduce his combat effectiveness.

Evil doesn't have a lot of D8 options that aren't also expensive options, but there are high Defense options for blunting Isildur. Let's put them on hold for now as we start the actual list, which begins oddly enough with . . .

Pick #5: Low Points Levels (and dice that roll 1s and 2s)

Okay, so this isn't really a model, but I think this really does highlight a problem for Isildur: if you're fielding Isildur at low points levels, failing a Ring test probably means you don't have a heavy-hitter this round. Your opponent isn't going to send Isildur into a fight if Isildur fails a Ring test - he's going to have him walk to the nearest pub and order a drink while his men flail about without him. I've fielded Isildur at lower points levels before and when he's rolling that 3+ for the Ring, he's pretty hard to stop. When he gets a 1-2 (especially if he gets 1s and 2s on successive turns), it's pretty awful.

Of course, you might not have a choice over the points level, so if that's the case, you should consider fielding . . .

Pick #4: War Beasts (especially Mumaks)

Do you know what the best thing is about the Ring? People can't just charge you - I mean, they can step on you and stuff (see a previous post on how the Ring works for more on that), but they can't "just charge you". Unless . . . of course . . . they're one of two kinds of units who can charge without actually charging: war beasts and chariots.

We've covered War Beasts in our Back to Basics series, but Mumaks are particularly dangerous to 3 Wound models because with 3-4 Strength 9 hits, they can reliably deal 2-3 wounds to a hero - and even if that hero survives and beats them in combat, they need to move first on the following turn or they're going to get run over again. Two tramples by a war beast is usually a death sentence unless the war beast is rolling poorly. Mumaks are usually well over three times Isildur's cost once you get the upgrades you want (Tusk Weapons and Gnarled Hide are the best options against Isildur - I always add Rappelling Lines to this) and your howdah filled out, but it's undeniable that one of these things will make him tremble (and a great many other units as well).

I'd be hesitant to say, "use chariots" because while they can charge him while he has the Ring on, chariot drivers are generally quite squishy, they'll always have the lower Fight Value, and their chariots will be wounded on 5s (or 4s if Isildur two-hands, which he might do since he has the higher Fight Value). Regardless of whether he's D7 or D8, a Khandish chariot is only going to wound him on 6s and an Iron Hills Chariot (which is more expensive than him) is going to wound him on 5s . . . neither is likely to do much to him and he could do a TON back to them. Still, it's an option you could take.

If you don't want to limit yourself to the factions that can take war beasts (or if you don't think they or chariots are worth the investment), might I recommend our first realistically competitive counter to him . . .

Pick #3: F6+ supporting models (especially Guards of the Galadhrim Court)

The Ring is awesome on Isildur - anyone who engages him will half their Fight Value while he's wearing the Ring . . . but there's no penalty to spear-supporting models! F6 supporting models are generally limited to Elves (Guards of the Galadhrim Court in Lothlorien, King's Guard with/and Gil-Galad in Rivendell, and Palace Guard near Thranduil in the Halls of Thranduil) and the odd man faction (Men-at-arms of Dol Amroth near Prince Imrahil and Mega-Boromir with his mighty banner). 

There are some odd cases where you can sub-optimally get F6+ supporting models in other factions (e.g. Cave Trolls/Isengard Trolls with spears, Gil-Galad), but in the main, any army of Elves is going to threaten Isildur - and with Lothlorien having the least list restrictions for getting F6 pikemen into a list (and being convenient allies with everyone), those Guards of the Galadhrim Court are the nastiest things alive. Yes, Isildur could choose to call a Heroic Strike while wearing the Ring to best or tie all but Gil-Galad, but if he's calling a Heroic Strike while wearing the Ring, I think you've won something there . . .

But if you're evil, you probably don't have this option (mostly because you don't want your Troll rolling 1 die). So if you happen to be looking for a good ally-in to counter a Ringbearer like Isildur, I'd recommend . . .

Pick #2: Bat Swarms (especially with Druzhag the Beastcaller and a big monster) and Tom the Troll

Evil gets the shenanigans - and they can half enemy Fight Values too WITHOUT the Ring. Bat Swarms are notorious for halving the Fight Value of enemy models and if a Bat Swarm and Isildur with the Ring get into it, the Bat begins at F1 compared to Isildur's F3. If, however, the Bat Swarm has a friend who can be higher than F3, then Isildur will have to call a Heroic Strike to have a chance at a higher Fight Value (though even he maxes out at F5).

Now there are a few ways you can get a higher Fight Value than Isildur in the Moria list - and the simplest way to do that is to have the Balrog in the same list (since he starts at F10, he'll be F5 against Isildur's F3 - and Isildur will have the lower Fight Value if he doesn't get a 4+ on his Strike roll). The Balrog won't be able to use his Fiery Lash shooting attack to whip Isildur into combat with him, but he can use Hurl to knock Isildur Prone and clear out a path towards him (if not in one turn, then over several turns). He also can't use the Fearless special rule to charge Isildur, but with C7 and 10 Will points, he can pass a Courage test to charge a Ringbearer up to 6" away and STILL have Will to spare.

Interestingly enough, you may even be able to pull off a sneaky attack with the Watcher in the Water - if he appears near Isildur (ideally displacing him), uses his Tentacle shots to clear out the Numenoreans near Isildur, and then uses a Barge to shove those models aside and then charges Isildur (on the same turn that a Bat has charged him), Isildur won't know that he needs to call a Heroic Strike until AFTER the time to call Heroics is over. When that's the case, a F3 Isildur will be fighting a F3 Watcher who has more Attacks on its side . . . that could go south for him really fast!

Both of these stategies, however, require the Bat Swarm to get the charge - and the simplest way to do that is to make sure you have Druzhag the Beastcaller in your army. This is not because you can auto-pass the Courage test with his Fury spell (you can't use auto-pass rules), but because Bats within 12" of Druzhag can borrow his Courage value (which starts at C4 and can be boosted to C5 with either of the Goblin Drums). Allying in the Watcher, a Bat Swarm, Druzhag, AND Durburz (the cheapest Hero of Valour/Legend Moria has) is going to be expensive, but you have the makings of a pretty good Moria army here . . .

Alternatively, you could look into Tom the Troll. Tom has the Lingering Cold special rule that allows him to half the enemy's Fight Value at the start of his Fight - which means your opponent needs to commit to a Strike BEFORE you commit to this rule. Both Isildur and Tom begin at F6, so if Isildur puts on the Ring and doesn't declare a Strike, then Tom can just sneeze on him and they have tied Fight Values. If Isildur does declare a Strike, then Tom can declare a Defense and plan on being wounded on 6s for one round. Tom will be wounded on 5s (4s if Isildur two-hands), so if you assume that he can blunt Isildur for one turn with Heroic Defense, he very well be able to burn through all of Isildur's Might before he dies . . . and at that point, it's an even game if you can keep all of Isildur's friends out of Tom's fight.

But as great as halving Isildur's Fight Value is, it's better if you can just encourage him to not put on the Ring at all. For that, we need . . .

Pick #1: Ringwraiths and the Necromancer of Dol Guldur

As we discussed above, Ringwraiths are not slowed down by Ringbearers - in fact, they're kind of happy when they show up! Ringwraiths are available to most of the Evil factions in the game (and are even available in an all-Ringwraith Legendary Legion - which I'm not convinced would do very well against an Isildur + Allies army at all) and all of the named ones are at least Heroes of Valour, so you can ally them with basically any Evil list if you want to. With easy access to Transfix, it's not hard for them to keep Isildur from doing anything, even if they never engage him (though the Witch-King or Khamul on a Fell Beast is probably okay fighting a transfixed Isildur, especially on a Fell Beast).

The creme of the crop, however, is the Necromancer of Dol Guldur (who can ally with any of the Hobbit armies that can't ally with Mordor) - he's got base F7, isn't affected by the Ring, can Transfix Isildur OR can channel Shroud of Shadows on himself (or do both with 2 Attacks if he's in the Rise of the Necromancer Legendary Legion). Since he won't be spending Will while fighting Isildur - and can ignore the visibility limitations of the Ring (being Sauron and all) - he's a prime candidate for dealing with Isildur. He's also pretty expensive, but not THAT much more expensive than your usual Witch-King build. One wound from the Necromancer and Isildur's gone, so any chip damage you can do before the Necromancer closes in is great for you.

So What If You're Playing a Forces of Good Army?

Most of the models/ideas we've looked at today are for Forces of Evil armies - and most of THOSE are only available in traditional lists instead of Legendary Legions. The only Forces of Good option we had on the list was F6 supporting models, and the lists that can field those are primarily limited to Elven alliances and aren't going to be available in any Legendary Legions (though if you include the dishonorable mention, you can get D8 warriors - including Warriors of the Dead - in two Legendary Legions, the Return of the King and the Defenders of Erebor . . . and Gimli in several Legions, but I wasn't counting heroes). Dealing with Isildur is hard - especially for most Legions, both Good and Bad.

But I think this is why Isildur has been doing so well lately - yes, you can try to shoot him with crossbows/ballistas or with Goblin bows at night, but if he puts on the Ring . . . you can't. A ballista isn't going to be forced to scatter onto him (not unless the Numenor player has misplayed something - there's always that option), high volume archery won't hit him, and most neutralizing magic won't be able to deal with him either. It's kind of a problem, really.

If you're playing with the Forces of Good, D8 and F6 are your best options - and if that fails, try to chop through his buddies faster than he chops through you. I'm sorry, I don't have anything else for you . . . but look - LISTS!

Sample Lists

As we've been doing for the past few posts in this series, I've got a sample list with Isildur that we'll be preparing to fight - this one has Isildur allied with Galadriel, who plays the dual-role of Cirdan and <whatever-hero-you-needed-to-ally>. The list has no March, which is my only critique, but it's also got a LOT of damage coming out:
  • Isildur on horse with shield and the One Ring
    • 8 Warriors of Numenor with shields
    • 1 Warrior of Numenor with shield and spear
    • 1 Warrior of Numenor with shield, spear, and banner
    • 5 Warriors of Numenor with spears and bows
  • CONVENIENT ALLY - Lothlorien: Galadriel with the Mirror of Galadriel [ARMY LEADER]
    • 6 Galadhrim Warriors with shields
    • 3 Galadhrim Warriors with Elf bows
    • 6 Guards of the Galadhrim Court
    • 3 Wood Elf Sentinels
If you wanted to downgrade the Sentinels to Galadhrim bowmen in order to eek out a Captain of Numenor, be my guest (if you want to see that list, check out the article I did on countering Elendil - it's in the sample lists at the end). This list has 35 models in it (maximal numbers for the two heroes we have) and 6 Might points (effectively 5 in most games, since you probably want to channel Blinding Light with Galadriel). Our first list is a Moria list featuring the triple-threat of Druzhag, a Bat Swarm, and (of course) the Watcher in the Water.
  • Moria Blackshield Captain [ARMY LEADER]
    • 5 Moria Goblin Warriors with shields
    • 6 Moria Goblin Warriors with spears
  • Moria Goblin Captain
    • 3 Moria Goblin Warriors with shields
    • 3 Moria Goblin Warriors with spears
    • 4 Moria Goblin Warriors with Orc bows
    • 2 Moria Goblin Drummers with Moria Goblin Drum
  • Druzhag the Beastcaller
    • 5 Moria Goblin Warriors with shields
    • 4 Moria Goblin Warriors with spears
    • 2 Giant Spiders
    • 1 Bat Swarm
  • The Watcher in the Water
700 points, 40 models, 4-6 Orc bows hitting on a 5+ AND D6 tentacles (eventually) hitting on a 3+, 2 D6+ models, 1 surprise arrival and effectively 2 Might for Heroic March, 8 Might

Our second list is a Good list and it features a horde of D8 spirits from Dunharrow - while these guys are only F3, the Terror they bring (and the D8 they have) will give them quite the advantage if you can get around the Numenor/Lothlorien flanks:
  • The King of the Dead [ARMY LEADER]
    • 7 Warriors of the Dead with shields
    • 6 Warriors of the Dead with shields and spears
    • 1 Warrior of the Dead with shield, spear, and banner
  • Rider of the Dead
    • 5 Warriors of the Dead with shields
    • 5 Warriors of the Dead with shields and spears
  • Rider of the Dead
    • 5 Warriors of the Dead with shields
    • 5 Warriors of the Dead with shields and spears
700 points, 37 models, no shooting, 37 D6+ models, 2 cavalry and 1 Might for Heroic March, 1 Might

Our final list features both our honorable mention (Sauron) and our #1 pick (a Ringwraith) - this is my go-to combo for Barad-Dur because the only thing better than having one magical threat for Isildur (after denying him the Ring) is to have TWO magical threats. In practice, this works against any army that has one big hero with limited Will - and can even work over time against armies with lots of heroes who have 0-1 Will. This army is "just a pile of Orcs" besides the big man and his spirit minion, but it's also a lot of fun
  • The Dark Lord Sauron
    • 6 Orc Warriors with shields
    • 5 Orc Warriors with shields and spears
    • 1 Orc Warrior with shield, spear, and banner
    • 2 Warg Riders with shields
    • 5 Orc Trackers
  • Ringwraith on horse with 2M/7W/1F
    • 3 Orc Warriors with shields
    • 2 Orc Warriors with shields and spears
    • 1 Orc Warrior with spear
    • 6 Orc Trackers
700 points, 33 models, 11 Orc bows hitting on a 4+, 2 D6+ models, 3 cavalry and 2 Might for Heroic March, 5 Might

This last one might not be a great match-up against Numenor and Lothlorien, but you can bet that Isildur won't do anything - and that could help you a lot. With Transfix attempts to shut down Isildur every turn (hopefully past his Resistant to Magic) and Sap Wills from long range against Galadriel to keep her from casting (she won't have Resistant to Magic thanks to the convenient alliance), I think the list could work out. Those Sentinels are going to bite, though, so if you get a chance to Chill Soul them or shoot them, you should take it.

Conclusion

Well, we're done with the "big four" from the Last Alliance and next time, we're turning the tables and looking at the big man himself, Sauron. This guy is nigh unkillable and if he has time to cast spells, he can snipe to death any number of models. So how does one beat him? Find out next week! Until then, happy hobbying!

7 comments:

  1. "Bifur the Dwarf from Thorin's Company if he calls a Heroic Strike"
    You are not allowed to support in a phase you have called a heroic action so that doesn't work against Isildur.

    The problem with this series is that it focuses too much on the specific hero and not on the list the hero is in. Army of the dead for example isn't that strong into a F4S4 faction that is most of the time allied with elves. As a mainly Isildur player I would be happy to face Dunharrow.

    The key to handle Isildur, besides playing Sauron in something like Contest of Champions, is having an army that is good against Numenor warriors or Numenor Warriors + Elves while also not relying on some melee heroes that can easily be taken out by Isildur. Ringwraiths aren't even that bad to face for a list with Isildur since those models aren't exactly cheap and Isildur is only 135pts with 3W D8, 2W2F and magic resistance so even if all he does is avoid getting killed by magic you aren't exactly losing out a lot of you can avoid giving up leader VPs- An elf + numenor army usually don't mind facing Mordor or Angmar even if their leader is hiding behind a house all game. Especially if the other heroes in the list are Glorfindel and/or Cirdan.

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    Replies
    1. The point on Bifur is a good one - I'm removing that now. I also welcome critique on this series - we can always improve.

      Last year when I started this series, the hero was very much in isolation, which is why all of the entries this year have had a reference list. This list had Galadriel and Elves supporting the Numenoreans and with 35 models, it probably wouldn't mind hitting 37 Dunharrow guys if they can keep the odds at 2:2.

      A Dunharrow list that can get 1:1 ofds is in a much better position, however, since Numenoreans wound the Dead on 6s, Elves wound the Dead on 6/4+, and the Dead wound the others back on 4s or 5s . . . and if the fights are 1:1, the Dead will be able to keep up with the attrition rate. If Isildur is also needing to get 6s and gets tied up, he might have to risk two-handing and probably needs to stay mounted to keep pace. It still might break in favor of Isildur, but he's the only killing hero in the list, so it very well become a toss up based on how much killing he does.

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    2. Galadriel is probably a bit weak to have alongside Isildur which is why the list is lacking a bit in killing potential. But any other version would have a hero that is quite fine with killing 1-2 ghosts a turn. Ghosts also doesn't like it if the king or their banner gets killed and that is something Isildur is quite decent at doing. Put on ring, kill target, hopefully remove ring next turn and then just be a decent F6S5D8A3 hero on foot. A Rivendell list as the ally option or going pure Numenor would also bump up the Courage to 4 on the warriors (maybe even fearless from Cirdan) so killing off the King would make any Numenorean a lot more survivable. Elves being able to 2h and feint can help quite a lot in places they get the numbers advantage and possibly snowball from there.

      Beornings, Minas Tirith and Dragon Host are some of the harder matchups for Isildur actually. Even if you ally with elves they are likely to have more F5 and better banner coverage than you while at the same time having important models that Isildur can't threaten very well. Beorn, Boromir and Dragon Emperor are not models Isildur can reliably kill with the ring on even with a trap and reroll from Cirdan unless the opponent messes up and they can threaten anything in your list in return. Great courage/fearless that negates any Terror elves bring. Those lists are also not very vulnerable to any S2/S3 shooting and often have more speed as well.

      Watcher lists can always be annoying but they aren't that good into Isildur if you have Galadriel or Cirdan. Blinding light make it very random if you can even hit and drag anything and terror or transfix can neutralize the bat if the tentacles fail. The watcher is also pretty slow and large, if he even enters when you want to, so if he wants to threaten anything he is also not far away from being threatened in return by Isildur. You can't drag him to a bat if he has the ring on and if you are a bit away from the bat it is unlikely to be able to charge an invisible ringbearer. Not that hard to break a list with just a few goblins in it. Ofc the watcher is so random that it can win anyway but the list is much less trouble than a Moria list with the Balrog.

      The most important thing against Isildur is to learn how to avoid getting caught by him in the back and something that you should warn about. Way more important than any matchup since this even works for getting the jump on Ringwraiths. With the Ring on he doesn't care about control zones, coupled that with his small 25mm base and he can reach models not even the flying monsters can reach (they are much easier to zone out with control zones). Isildur can't call heroic combats and have other models benefit from it but nothing stops Isildur to charge into the same combat as Cirdan or Galadriel and then have them call the Heroic Combat to slingshot Isildur through the opponents lines and trap a hero or banner and murder them and he still has all 3 Might left for boosting rolls. Since he can ignore control zones and models both when charging the first model and then the inevitable target it is really hard for the opponent to see the true threat range he has and position themselves to avoid it. No other model can do what he does so this move gets constantly underestimated all the time even when they try to have it in mind.

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    3. All good points - and great to know! I used a Galadriel alliance not only because I used a Numenor/Rivendell alliance in the Elendil post, but also because Isildur with Galadriel (and Gwaihir at higher points levels) has been making a splash across the globe but especially by Evan Iverson. Access to F6 pikes, cheap Blinding Light/Immobilize/Blessing of the Valar, and cheaper cavalry is really good - and you can't get that with Rivendell . . . but you can get a second beater hero and Cirdan, which scratches different itches.

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    4. The higher point version with Gwaihir makes a lot of sense and maybe even a bit lower points than 700 with Galadriel (or with Elendil rather than Isildur). 3 Sentinels, 6 pikes AND Mirror sounds like you ran out of points to spend and a 650pt list with same number of models would do better and suddenly have a numbers advantage over for example the Dunharrow list you posted and suddenly Dunharrow becomes a bad counter. Right now it only works a bit at 700 due to an inefficient point level for the chosen list but at any other point level or hero combination it doesn't.

      Big fan of the blog though so just wanted to give some constructive criticism.

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    5. Hey, I can admit when I'm wrong or need new perspective - I always appreciate it when there's a counter view presented in the comments!

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  2. This blog provides many useful tactics and strategies, which is definitely a treasure for players facing Isilda. I particularly enjoy the author's proposed adversarial strategies and example lists, which are very inspiring.

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