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Thursday, August 18, 2022

Ranking the 4 New Battle Hosts!

All images taken from the Warhammer Community article

Hey Reader!

You all know I love a good (and ultimately pointless) ranking post, and seeing as we got four new battle hosts dropping shortly to an online store/physical GW or retailer store near you, it seemed like a good idea to do an overly pedantic ranking of these four new armies to see which is "the best."

Now I should start off by saying that 1) I'm a huge fan of this concept, as it's an easy way for someone to start the game with useful core portions of their respective army and then they can build from there based on their fancy, and 2) that literally none of these can be fully played as-is because of the hero-to-warrior ratio, so I want to note before we begin that I think all of these are awesome, I will definitely consider buying a few of them, and that (in classic Centaur fashion) there will be caveats for the ranking below that will show the mindset I'm using to assess the lists, so if you disagree with those you're probably going to think the ranking is trash, :P

Of course, who am I kidding: some of you are going to think the rankings are trash anyway, but oh well.

So in the way of explaining our criteria for the ranking, I need to express the following caveats for how we approached the comparison.

First, I'm looking at the four battle hosts against each other, not against some nebulous army or legendary legion that could be fielded against them. Since a lot of army concepts rely on a wide range of synergies between warriors and heroes, it goes beyond the spirit of the battle host - a hero (or a hero pair, in two cases) and two boxes of warriors - to compare them to a complex or diversified list. So we will be comparing the four battle hosts to each other only for the purpose of this ranking. If more are released, and if you all enjoy this post, I'll gladly rerank with the new releases as they come out!

Second, we are assuming that the battle hosts face each other on a variety of scenarios, so just because, for example, one battle host is overwhelmingly F3 and another is overwhelmingly F4, that doesn't necessarily mean that the F4 army will win out. It may slant close calls in their direction as melee prowess tends to help in winning matches, but it's not the only factor we are considering.

And finally, I openly admit that with the addition of a second hero a lot of the rankings change. I'll note more on this in the conclusion, but suffice it to say, none of these boxes are "optimized" for competitive play right out of the box. And as I'll note below, I think that's the point, and it's brilliant.

We will be evaluating the strengths of the hero, warriors, and their ability to perform well against the other hosts that are arrayed against them. So with no further ado, let's look at the incredible box set that comes in at last place, only because one of them has to.


#4: Mordor

Comes with the Witch-King, 24 orc
warriors, and 6 warg riders

So, I felt bad placing this one here because 1) the Witch-King has an incredible profile, and 2) that sculpt is an absolute masterpiece, released last year and it's one of the most beautiful models in the range.

Unfortunately, though, he's surrounded by absolute trash that struggles to hold up in melee or at range, and with some of the worst archers in the game to provide cover fire, all three of the other factions will whittle down his supporting troops before the ranks close. And once they do, the orcs won't stand up well against what is arrayed against them. The warg riders provide reliable damage options, and the orcs provide the widest array of options for infantry out of all of the box sets (giving you swords/picks, spears, bows, and two-handed axes/picks), but from a stats and usefulness perspective you have some of the poorest cavalry in the game for their points alongside some of the weakest infantry in the game, all in support of a great hero.

Now, as an argument in favor of this battle host, there is a distinct advantage that this box set has that the others do not have, and that is that it is not strictly a Mordor battle host. These exact same models can also be fielded by Angmar, so if you are looking to start an Angmar army, you can run all of these models there too! Just buy a few barrow wights, maybe a cave troll, and maybe some other spirit models and you're set!

Similarly you can also run this as a Barad Dur battle host: just buy the big man and some additional troops and you're good to go. Plus with the warrior models forming the core of several legendary legions, you could run those as well if you felt inclined. So unlike the others, this is a very versatile set for starting multiple armies - I just didn't use that as a criteria for the ranking.


#3: Rohan

Comes with Eomer, 6 Riders of Rohan,
and 24 Warriors of Rohan
Rohan was my first army, and it hurts me to place them here, but it's where they should go. Eomer is a fantastic hero - one of the best they have, and thus why I've argued for years that you should always field him (and reiterated it with updated info for the new edition last year) - and this sculpt is just absolutely phenomenal. The Riders of Rohan are great skirmish cavalry that can also add +1 Strength on the charge, and since they can start with axes you get great killing potential from them. 

And while the Warriors of Rohan are not great troops, they can hold a line for a few turns to be the "anvil" to buy time for the cavalry to "hammer" out the enemy, all while providing decent (for this ranking, as none of these models shoot on a 3 or better) archer cover.

The issue with this battle host is two-fold. First and foremost is the fragility of these troops: at D4-5 the troops in this section won't stand up for long if they lose a fight, and if your cavalry get charged they will fall very quickly. And while they have the largest number of archers at 14, their S2 archery is ineffective against two of the factions and only slightly effective against the other (Mordor).

The second issue is, ironically, the hero choice: it's a "close but not optimal for the troops in this list" choice, even though it's also 1) a great choice, 2) the one I'd want if I was starting out, and 3) the best they have access to. Infantry want Grimbold to upgrade them to Helmingas, and cavalry want Theoden to make them Fight 4.

So I think Rohan comes in basically at the middle in all categories: great, but not the greatest in any category. So it's fitting that they should end near the middle.


#2: Minas Tirith

Comes with Gandalf and Pippin, 6 Knights,
and 24 Warriors of Minas Tirith
This one wasn't even close for me: I knew just by looking at what came in the box sets that this one was going to be in the top two, but it turns out it's hard to beat the loadout and surprising number of options in the first place finisher. 

But what we have here is fantastic: a solid hero who can both bring the pain in close combat - Fight 5 with an elven-made weapon and Heroic Strike (or maybe Immobilize against the target first so he doesn't have to Strike, as all of the heroes in this lineup are Fight 5, and he's the only one with an elven-made weapon), Strength 5 with Glamdring, 2 Attacks with 3 Attacks on the charge, and supporting, damaging, and hindering magic on top of all of that. And with Pippin aboard I'm just assuming he gets Resistant to Magic as well, which is just gravy. He's one of the most expensive heroes in this list, and it shows. If this was just a comparison of heroes, I think he'd take the #1 spot of the heroes in this ranking.

And his supporting troops are also good: D6-7 save for the archers, but even they are D5, which is as good as Mordor and Rohan get at their best, and with lances on cheap yet durable cavalry (basically the same cost as, or possibly even cheaper than, the warg riders and riders of Rohan), the knights are some of the punchiest cavalry in the game, and definitely the punchiest for their points value.

The issue with this army is 1) the predominance of Fight 3, so they'll lose fights to Fight 4 models, and 2) their Strength 3, which means crunching through heavy armor is going to be an issue. While their Courage is good, their overall killing power tends to stall (either by losing fights or failing to wound), and that can cost you matches. And while I think they'd do okay against Mordor and Rohan as provided in these box sets, I don't think they'd be Isengard.

Which is where we go next.


#1: Isengard

Comes with Saruman and Grima, 24 Uruk
Scouts, and 20 Uruk-Hai Warriors
It turns out, any which way you cut it, it's hard to beat 44 Uruk-Hai. Full stop. Put Saruman alongside them for hindering and damaging magic, the ability to seize priority once per game without a roll, and a helpful little nuisance to keep your enemies from spending too many Might Points, and you have a combination that is nigh impossible (in my mind - argue with me in the comments below if you disagree) to overcome.

But to start, we need to address first that this one comes with far more models than the others: since the others have 24 infantry + 6 cavalry + 1 mounted hero (and in the case of Gandalf an additional sidekick) and this box set gets 44 infantry + 1 mounted hero + 1 additional sidekick, the numerical advantage heavily favors Isengard in this scenario.

Tack onto this that they are the only box set that has access to Fight 4 as-is, and that's just a recipe for disaster for any combat involving these guys. Since all of these factions can take a banner and this is the only faction that starts with both Fight 4 for winning fights and Strength 4 for cracking through armor, none of the other factions are loving their chances in melee against this faction, especially if Saruman is casting Immobilize on their hero.

Add onto this Grima just hanging out near the hero to keep them from calling heroic actions, 8 uruk-hai bows doing Strength 3 damage (the only S3 archery in this comparison), and the only access to Woodland Creature in this ranking, and while they may not have as much speed per se as the other factions, they more than make up for it with numbers, good archery support, and unfettered movement.

It's overwhelming how much firepower you get with this box set, and everything in it is useful. Saruman is no slouch, and you get to play a lot of different things (pike block, swarm, magic, and tricksy Grima shenanigans) all at once. In my mind, as-is with just these sets, it isn't close. This is the #1 choice in terms of raw power, options, and threats.


Conclusion

Now as I mentioned at the start, I think that the rankings change a bit if you add even just one hero to each list. If Theoden joins Rohan I think that makes a big difference. If Ingold or Hurin or any damage dealer for Minas Tirith joins the list I think they become more reliable in keeping pace. If Mordor gets a single monster that swings a lot of things in their favor, and if Isengard adds any of the iconic heroes from their list - Lurtz, Thrydan, Mauhur - it gives them even more options than they had before.

And this doesn't take into account the fact that all of these factions have elite troops (literally anything else in Mordor, Rohan Royal Guards/Outriders, literally anything else in Minas Tirith, or berserkers and siege troops) that would also adjust the power curve. So this is obviously not a ranking of the factions as a whole: there's way too many things that would play a factor into that ranking, and I'm not brave enough to wander into that, :P But if you, for whatever reason, cared about which of these in a box-on-box showdown as "the strongest," that's my ranking.

Let us know what you think! Is there a box you're most excited about (I'm actually keenly looking at all of them for various reasons)? Tells us in the comments below! Until then, you know where to find me,

Watching the stars,

Centaur

"Remember, Firenze, we are sworn not to set ourselves against the heavens.  Have we not read what is to come in the movements of the planets?" ~ Bane, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone

9 comments:

  1. I agree with this ranking entirely as-is - I think if you were to add a hero purchase to each, it could change this dramatically. Adding Theoden to the Rohan list gives you F4 Riders of Rohan (who are still squishy, but increases their Fight Value), for example.

    But I think the biggest point of comparison for the boxes is that they don't have the same points value across them. The Isengard box has ~400pts of warriors supported by ~200pts of heroes, while the Isengard box has ~200pts of warriors supported by a 100-200pt hero - that's a HUGE disparity of difference.

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    1. Oh, definitely - the Mordor v. Isengard comparison is night and day, but really looking at Mordor against...anyone...is pretty lopsided, save maybe against Rohan if you max out the Witchking. And even then you're comparing 6-7pt infantry to 7-9pt infantry and 12-13ish pt cavalry to 13-15pt cavalry.

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  2. I feel quite let down by the Rohan box, maybe if they had gone with a half box of warriors and 2 boxes of cavalry it would be much more useful! The F4 S4 of the uruks is just unbeatable in this ranking. And while Gandalf is a better wizard than Saruman (in my opinion), the troop quality will overwhelm him.

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    1. If you had Gandalf and Saruman square off in a fight, Gandalf would be greatly encouraged to channel Fortify Spirit on himself to make him all-but-impregnable to Saruman's magic (unless he Sorcerous Blasted someone into Gandalf). With such high Defense in this particular box set, Blinding Light could be skipped and Gandalf could just focus on smashing troops with both his magic and Glamdring (he could beat up Saruman at any time). But you're definitely right - the Uruks are oppressive in this match-up. :)

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  3. I Like your Ranking.
    Even though the boxes are not interesting for me, i think they are good for the Hobby and offer an alternative to the Starterbox

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    1. Same - I have basically all of these armies already (I don't own Saruman or warg riders, but that's the only stuff I'm missing that I'd consider getting), so they're not that appealing to me as a 12-year veteran of the game, but I'm glad they're coming out because I've got friends who are just starting to look at the hobby, and I think this will be a great starting point, especially if they don't plan to collect Minas Tirith or Mordor (and if they are, tacking this into the starter set would set them up for warriors and add useful heroes).

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    2. I'm interested in predicting what Battleboxes might be created from the Hobbit - currently only Goblintown and Thranduils Halls have plastic heroes and troops, but if Army of Thror and Azog's Hunters got plastic heroes, they'd be viable as well!

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    3. Because of the pricing difference between the Hobbit (newer) models and the Lord of the Rings (older) models, I'd predict Goblin-town and Azog's Hunters would be chosen for their warriors, while the Halls of Thranduil and maybe Lake-town would be chosen for good. The heroes is the sticking point - not only are most of the heroes in metal/resin, but there aren't a lot of singleton heroes (which is mostly the case for the Battlehost boxes - Saruman and Grima excepted). My guess would be that Azog would make an appearance (or Bolg), Legolas/Tauriel would be chosen for the Halls of Thranduil (them on foot instead of the mounted Legolas set), the Goblin-King with his whole retinue (since they won't have cavalry to add in), and the Master/Alfrid. Not sure how they'd account for Lake-town/Goblin-town not having cavalry and only metal cavalry for Thranduil's Halls though . . .

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    4. Yeah I think the most obvious choices for evil would be Azog's Hunters (both because they look cool, but also because they might be willing to just throw in Fimbul and Narzug as-is, even though they're resin and not plastic) and Goblin-Town (because you throw in the Goblin King and 2 boxes of goblins and you've basically got the evil side of the starter set from years ago, so the pricing model probably already allows for that pairing).

      Good is a bit trickier, but I would actually expect it to be Dale (with Girion and 2 sprues of Dale warriors) and probably Thranduil's Halls, though who knows: because of Defence of the North there's a huge advantage in putting out something that could be used for both The Hobbit era stuff and The Lord of the Rings era stuff.

      But the issue of course is that we haven't really gotten anything new for the Hobbit era factions since everything was being made in resin, so I suspect that it will require some mobilization on that front to get battlehosts for those; we're probably more likely to see stuff that has crossover to the newer book releases to help drive those sales than we are stuff that's purely from the Hobbit era.

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