Good morning gamers,
In this series, we've mostly looked at heroes who get heavily critiqued in the competitive community. Today, we're looking at a warrior selection that doesn't receive much respect: Galadhrim Knights. As one of two mounted profiles in the Lothlorien list (alongside Celeborn - I mean, Galadhrim Captains and NOT Celeborn!?!?!?!), you'd think that in a game that gives incredible bonuses to being mounted, any mounted model would be beloved and prized. Some of us (I am a fairly recent convert) have used them and grown to love them (probably with a high learning curve that made us hate them for a while) and others just don't see it. So today, we're looking at these guys in detail to learn all the tricks of the trade - let's get stuck in!
Why NOT To Take Galadhrim Knights
Whenever you hear someone complain about Galadhrim Knights, the words "Rivendell Knights" are often heard in the same breath. Rivendell, like Lothlorien and the Halls of Thranduil, are either historical allies or convenient allies with every Good faction in the game - so any Good faction CAN have cavalry if they are willing to give up their army bonus (unless they're one of those rare historical allies with the Elves, which are mostly factions of the hero/monster variety).
With +1 To Wound on potentially 4 dice (if the Riv-Knight has charged and knocked prone his opponent), Rivendell Knights are very attractive profiles - without even going into the "doesn't count towards your bow limit" rule they can get if you have Elrond in the same army. Add THIS to the equation, and an army of all-mounted Rivendell Elves is SCARY. Lots of S3 bows that can move about as fast as an infantry model while still shooting? Lethal. Charging into one side of the enemy lines and running them over in a single charge? Definitely possible. Fun to play against? Absolutely not. Do Galadhrim Knights instill the same terror? No way.
But Rivendell Knights aren't the only Elven cavalry that make Galadhrim Knights look bad. In the Halls of Thranduil list, you have Mirkwood Cavalry (who also don't look as good as Rivendell Knights) - coming in at 17pts/model with a shield (2pts cheaper than a similarly-equipped Galadhrim Knight) and again rides a normal horse, but otherwise has the hand-and-a-half sword vs. a normal sword. Now if you were 2pts cheaper and had a worse horse and the option to go two-handed, I'm not sure that the Galadhrim Knight would be "worse" than this guy - but if Mirkwood Cavalry are within 6" of Thranduil, they treat him as a banner (which is really nice). In addition, if Mirkwood Cavalry are within 3" of Thranduil and the Halls of Thranduil army bonus is in play, they get a free +1 To Wound (that's +1 To Wound without a dueling penalty and +2 To Wound if they go two-handed - and while two-handing gets critiqued by many in this game, 2 Attacks on the charge with a banner reroll can stand to suffer a -1 penalty if you're up against 1-2 dice on the other side with a lower Fight Value).
But why compare Galadhrim Knights to Elven cavalry options only? If you look to the armies of men, you can have F5/S4 Rohan Royal Guards for a lot cheaper than Galadhrim Knights (15pts/model without throwing spears, historical allies with Lothlorien), F5/S3 Knights of Dol Amroth with lances near Imrahil (who gives them +1 FV and a banner bonus) for about as expensive (yeah, I'm not sure these guys are worth it - a lot of competitive players agree that they're overcosted unless they're right in Imrahil's armpit), F4/S6/2A Sons of Eorl for about the same cost (if they're within 6" of Eorl the Young - but we'll get into these guys more later in this series), and terror-causing F4/S3 Morgul Knights with lances for roughly the same price (these guys get critiqued for being too expensive too - and they may show up later in this series too). Besides the Rohan Royal Guards, all of these guys are on armored horses - so even the argument that "well, my horse is better" doesn't stand up here.
The only "heavy cavalry" (armored horse) that is directly comparable to these guys are Easterling Kataphrakts - models that are 14pts without the Black Dragon upgrade and have -2 FV (-1 with the Black Dragon upgrade), potentially +1 Defense while Gleaming Horde is active, -2 Courage (-1 with the Black Dragon upgrade) and "only" cost 4pts less. Like Galadhrim Knights, there is often the complaint that these guys should have lances or some other way to get +1 To Wound. If I felt like I could defend Easterlings, I might make a case for that here, but my track record runs against me on this - I'm not sure that these guys can be said to be better than Galadhrim Knights (but I'm also not sure that they can be said to be worse).
The final critique we'll highlight here is that Galadhrim Knights are expensive - and while that's true of all Elven cavalry, when all of your warrior choices are expensive, having models that are 19-21 points means your army needs to run cheaper, weaker heroes or fewer warriors. Both of these have problems - by running weaker heroes, your ability to deal with big enemy heroes (or chop through enemy warriors) becomes harder, while running fewer warriors means breaking you (and beating you in an objective-based game) gets easier. The fewer guys you have, the more you'll be tempted to shield - and shielding very rarely evens the odds for your troops. Is a Galadhrim Knight with Elf bow and shield worth it over 2 Galadhrim Warriors (one with Elf bow and one with shield)? Some people would say not (and for a long time, I was one of them).
I didn't own Galadhrim Knights until I started working on the Bare Necessities series we did a while back - and during that series, I gained a greater respect for cavalry in general, but also for skirmish cavalry (and Galadhrim Knights in particular). So, with quite a few games under my belt with these guys, let's look at what they give you and why you'd want them.
Why TO Take Galadhrim Knights
Let's start with the comparison with Rivendell Knights: as the only other Elven cavalry warrior that can be a "horse archer," the big draw of Rivendell Knights is access to lances. I mean, getting +1 To Wound is lethal (it makes wounding D6 shieldwalls much easier and it makes running over D3-5 grunts - which includes most enemy archers - REALLY easy). But here's the thing about lances: they're only useful if you're charging (and they incentivize you to actually charge). Rivendell Knights with shields cost +1pt/model more than Galadhrim Knights and they get the lance, but if they're playing the keep-away game, they're not only delaying the advantage of that lance, but they're also trying to do so while on a D4 horse (vs. the D5 horses of the Galadhrim Knights).
If you want to play the keep-away, pesky-archer strategy, Galadhrim Knights are going to be better - not only do they have a D5 mount (which will be harder to wound with S2 and S4 ranged weapons), but they also have 10" movement that isn't restricted by woodland terrain thanks to Fleetfoot (which your Elven infantry are probably trying to maximize as well). 5" movement while shooting is fast enough to keep away from most infantry - and if a handful of infantry try chasing a few of these guys down, the tables can be rapidly turned from a steady retreat into a swift charge. I will note in passing that if a Rivendell Knight is standing still next to Elrond (if he's the army leader) that he can reroll failed To Hits with his archery - but you're not playing keep-away at that point. In all likelihood, you've decided that you can stand and shoot before charging in (not trying to stay out of reach). If you think these are reasons not enough to elevate Galadhrim Knights over Rivendell Knights, I get it - and I'm out of ideas. :-)
While you can run these guys with shields only (no Elf bows), I think Galadhrim Knights are far more effective as horse archers than shock cavalry. Mirkwood Cavalry are great in a Halls of Thranduil list because they're your only cavalry option - and while they can be deadly near Thranduil, they aren't as flexible as either of the other two Elven options (they have to engage before they can do anything). Galadhrim Knights may not get the banner reroll and +1 To Wound that the handful of these guys will if they're within 3" of Thranduil with their army bonus, but they will get the +1 Defense on their mounts and Fleetfoot for only +2 points over their Mirkwood cousins (and the bow gives them the ability to skirmish with both of these bonuses for +3 or +4pts over their Mirkwood kin depending on whether they have shields or not). Mirkwood Cavalry are cheaper cavalry - that's about it.
Hidden in the discussion of both of these Elven cavalry options is another benefit of Galadhrim Knights: to maximize the effectiveness of other Elven cavalry, you have to take really expensive heroes. Elrond allows you to field Rivendell Knights without them counting towards your bow limit - but if you assume he has heavy armor and probably a horse to keep up with all these knights, you're looking at a 180-point or 190-point investment just to begin fielding the army you want (added to +22pts/model for the Knights with shields themselves). For the Halls of Thranduil, you can buy Thranduil cheaply (110pts with just the heavy armor, +5pts if you want the Elf bow too), but to extend your radius a bit farther and to keep up with the cavalry, you probably need him on a mount (+10 or +20pts depending on your choice), you might want that extra sword (+30pts), and optionally you could take the Circlet of Kings (+25pts). A fully kitted-out Thranduil costs 190pts (just like Elrond, actually) and this will only help 2-4 Mirkwood Cavalry get to the god-mode level of killing that we've been looking at.
Compare this to your options in Lothlorien: since Galadhrim Knights have no required heroes to synergize with (you used to be able to upgrade these guys to get +1 Courage - that's since been nixed because no one wanted it), you can run a fairly inexpensive hero like Haldir (75-90pts), Rumil (85-90pts), the new Orophin model (85pts), or a mounted Galadhrim Captain (95pts max) to bring along your Knights - and that means for the same cost as the requisite hero you need to make your Elven cavalry good, you can get ALL your Galadhrim Knights and a hero to bring them. Will that hero be as good as these mega-Elf heroes? No - but that's not their job, is it?
For this reason, Galadhrim Knights play to a strength that Lothlorien has that most Elven armies fail to get: Lothlorien can get elite cavalry while also spamming out high numbers of elite troops. At 700pts (a fairly standard high points level), you can field Galadriel without her mirror, Haldir (with everything except his Elven cloak), and a maxed-out Galadhrim Captain for 310pts. With 390pts reserved for your warriors, you can easily field 3 Galadhrim Knights with shields and Elf bows (to get your 4 fast troops), 11 Galadhrim Warriors with shields, 1 Galadhrim Warrior with shield, spear, and banner, 8 Guards of the Galadhrim Court, and 8 Wood Elf Warriors with Elf bows (5 with Wood Elf spears) for a total of 34 models. With 14 warrior slots left, increasing the points level doesn't require you to get more heroes unless you want the Might - you can just pile on more guys! This army also has a double-shooting hero (for 14 Elf bow shots a turn), a top-tier caster, and a Marching mounted hero - not bad. This army ticks all the boxes for our Bare Necessities series (30+ models with 4+ fast models, an actual banner, and lots of tricks/augments for your army), something that the other two Elven factions struggle to do at 700pts (especially if a maxed Elrond/Thranduil are in the mix).
If we branch out from Elves to Men, Galadhrim Knights aren't as overcosted as they originally appear. Rohan Royal Guards without throwing spears are only 3pts cheaper than Galadhrim Knights without Elf bows - and for those extra points, you get +1 Defense on your mount, Fleetfoot, and you're always F5. Always. With an Elven-made weapon (if you're charging/charged by someone who is F5). If you include the throwing spears on the Rohan Royal Guard and the Elf bow on the Galadhrim Knight, you have a longer range of threat with the Knights than you have with the Rohan Royal Guards (with the ability to back away through wooded areas to keep distance between you and your foes). Oh, and if you're advancing up the field at 5" each turn while shooting, you can probably stay within Blinding Light range of Galadriel, making it much harder to take out your horses (something Rohan Royal Guards struggle with all the time).
Knights of Dol Amroth, Morgul Knights, and Iron Hills Goat Riders are the only lance-wielding cavalry with D5 mounts (Goat Riders, wait your turn) - and Morgul Knights cost 1 point less than Galadhrim Knights, picking up lance bonuses and Terror instead of Fleetfoot, +1 FV, and +1 Courage. If you rate lances as being worth the same as F5, then you're paying +1 point for +1 Courage - which isn't unreasonable. Knights of Dol Amroth pay +1pt more than Galadhrim Knights to get their lances - and besides this, they have -1 FV (unless they're within 3" of Imrahil) and -1 Courage. This means that the Elves are getting the Courage boost for free (while the Knights get a massive banner radius when within 12" of Imrahil instead of Fleetfoot).
The cost comparison here isn't bad - the Knights aren't wildly overpaying for anything. Goat Riders similarly pay +1 point more per model than Galadhrim Knights and get the lance bonuses in trade for -1 FV, -1 Courage (though they could be Fearless if within 12" of Dain), and -2" of movement (with the ability to knock things over during the Move phase). Not gonna say that these guys are bad, but Galadhrim Knights aren't overcosted. Galadhrim Knights might be expensive, but their cost isn't wildly out of proportion for other elite cavalry. And of all the cavalry we've viewed today (besides Rivendell Knights), these guys are the only ones that can come with a S3 Elf bow to harass enemy cavalry or infantry blocks . . . yeah, I think they have a place. Not a spammable unit, but very functional in their army.
Making It Work
We've incidentally talked about most of this, but my first observation bears repeating: use these models in small numbers as objective grabbers and working together to thin out a particular part of the enemy army. As with any shooting warband, you want to concentrate your fire on a unit that is relatively easy to kill. With the ability to move 5" back and still shoot the enemy with a decent shooting weapon, these guys can take out a small warband of foes pretty easily. Once you've got the ability to get 1:1 fights (or better), you can always change tactics and charge into the enemy if they've gotten that close - or you can run 10" away if you need to gain more slack between you and your foes.
Second, use these models to counter-charge enemy cavalry or to charge into fights with your heroes. For reasons we don't know, the only heroes who can take horses in the Lothlorien list are Galadhrim Captains, so if you want to get more use out of Haldir/Rumil (2A each) or Celeborn (3A with Lord of the West), charge a Galadhrim Knight into the fight. This often means your heroes need to be deployed on the flanks of your formations instead of the center of your formations - there's a trade there, but this gives you a little more of an option.
Third, you can ally these guys into a Rohan list instead of taking mounted Rohan Royal Guards. Rohan heroes are great, but the ability to have F6 from an Elven hero (instead of F5) and the ability to have an Elven-made weapon in the same fight as a Striking hero (from a Galadhrim Knight) can be invaluable. A few Galadhrim Knights with Haldir (or Orophin) can be very useful - and having models that are always F5 is better than having models that are F5 when within 12" of Theoden and charging. If you're running a mixed arms Rohan army, allying in Haldir, 1 Galadhrim Warrior with spear and banner, 9 Guards of the Galadhrim Court, and 5 Galadhrim Knights with Elf bows and shields only costs 334pts and it provides you with 10 spears/pikes to support any foot Rohan models you have, 6 Elf bows (7 shots) to supplement your Rohan archery, and will give you +16 models to your army - pretty good, I think.
An example of this army might look like the following at 700pts (you have 12 warrior slots left, so if you want to add more models/another big hero as your points level goes up, you certainly can) - this army has 36 models, is mostly D6+, and has a whopping 9 horses with 3 Might for Heroic March from Theoden for speed:
- Theoden, King of Rohan with everything [ARMY LEADER]
- 2 Rohan Royal Guards on horses with throwing spears
- 6 Rohan Outriders (or "Outwalkers")
- Deorwine, Chief of the King's Knights on horse
- 10 Rohan Royal Guards
- HISTORICAL ALLY - Lothlorien: Haldir with Elf bow and heavy armor
- 1 Galadhrim Warrior with spear and banner
- 9 Guards of the Galadhrim Court
- 5 Galadhrim Knights with Elf bows and shields
While Lothlorien only has one mounted hero option, they can ally with a LOT of other mounted heroes - and Galadhrim Knights make great hero escorts. Escorting Rohan heroes (who can benefit sometimes from just having an Elven-made weapon in the fight), Fellowship heroes (like Boromir, Legolas, Gandalf, or Aragorn), and Galadhrim Captains (who, being a non-Strike hero, can always use extra dice) is a valuable thing to have - even if it's just to have a D6 rider on a D5 mount to get in the way of enemy archery.
Finally, I highly recommend taking all of these guys as horse archers. Taking a bow doesn't make the rider any worse of a melee combatant and it gives you options for using your expensive cavalry model as a skirmisher. While sometimes you need to "just press forward" and forego shooting, having the option to shoot is always handy. So take the bow - just take the bow.
Bonus list time - here's an 800pt Lothlorien list I'm playing with right now (to help my buddies prepare for NOVA) - it's got a metric ton of Elves in it (45 models, almost max), I chose not to run any shields on the infantry to add a few models (the Blinding Light makes me feel better about the D5 all over my army), and it has a TON of bows (and of course, a good contingent of throwing daggers - because it's me). It's unclear to me if Orophin would be better for this list or not - jury's out until play testing begins:
- Galadriel [ARMY LEADER]
- 5 Galadhrim Warriors
- 4 Galadhrim Warriors with spears
- 1 Galadhrim Warrior with spear and banner
- 4 Galadhrim Warriors with Elf bows
- 4 Galadhrim Warriors with Elf bows and spears
- Haldir with Elf bow and heavy armor
- 1 Galadhrim Knight with Elf bow and shield
- 4 Galadhrim Warriors
- 4 Galadhrim Warriors with spears
- 1 Galadhrim Warrior with Elf bow
- 2 Galadhrim Warriors with Elf bows and spears
- Galadhrim Captain on armored horse with Elf bow and shield
- 2 Galadhrim Knights with Elf bows and shields
- 6 Wood Elf Warriors with throwing daggers
- 4 Wood Elf Warriors with throwing daggers and Wood Elf spears
Conclusion
I really like these guys - and if you've had any experience running them or facing them, let us know in the comments! Next week, Rythbyrt emerges from the depths of busy life stuff to splurge on and on about one of his favorite models (and one that is viewed by many players as a wasted profile): Castellans of Dol Guldur. Is a 0-Might hero worth taking? And how do you get the most out of these guys? And how many should you take in order to be dangerous? Find out the answers to these (and every question you could possibly have) next time - until then, happy hobbying!
You've made an excellent case for these guys being the best skirmish cavalry in the game. The vast majority of archery is S2, and there is a huge difference between having your horse shot out of you on a 5+ rather than on a 6.
ReplyDeletePlus fleetfoot. I am about to purchase a box!
ReplyDeleteIt took a long time for me to convert to these guys - but I've become a believer in them (at least in small numbers). Glad you liked the article! :)
DeleteI like this series a lot, it's always a good read.
ReplyDeleteRealistically, I think that these are probably the worst of the three Elven cavalry options, but that also kind of doesn't matter: if you're running Lothlorien then you should almost always be including a couple of them anyway, just for the strategic flexibility that having cavalry gives you. They're probably a point overcosted, but better a handful of points wasted than a game lost because you had no mobility. I don't think anyone would choose to run Lothlorien over the other Elf factions to fit in these guys, but if you have other reasons to run Lothlorien then they're kind of a no-brainer in my mind. A much easier sell than Mordor Uruk-hai haha.
Great article as ever!
Hey, Mordor Uruks are great! :-P I didn't mention this in the article, but it did strike me that you could forego a Galadhrim Captain on horse and pick up a High Elf Captain with the full kit (since they're historical allies) and bring Rivendell Knights/High Elf Warriors with melee weapons with him. This would give you similar fighting power with slightly more expensive models (might mean your numbers drop by 1), but if you prefer the other cavalry options, you could do it and only be losing out on the D5 mount and Fleetfoot.
DeleteI mean, they aren't bad, and in a different faction would probably be pretty great really. Lots of Good factions would love to have access to them as skirmishers I imagine. They just happen to be in the same army list as Morannon Orcs and Black Numenoreans, who are arguably two of the most efficient infantry units in the game! My takeaway from your excellent article on them was still basically 'it'd be fine if I had to take these, but they're still not going to compete with those two options'.
DeleteThat's a good point re taking a High Elf Captain. If you were contemplating fielding a mounted Captain anyway then making them a High Elf and picking up a lance is a pretty great trade, and you certainly wouldn't be sad to pick up some Rivendell Knights too. If you don't need that particular warband to access Lothlorien-specific tools, then it's probably going to be a great trade for most lists. You'll even get the Rivendell Army Bonus to boost the Knight's shooting!
On a side note, what are your thoughts on Orophin? I've seen a few players come down hard on him for not having Strike, but he seems pretty balanced when compared to his brothers.
I'm both happy and sad that Orophin didn't get March - having a 3-Might-and-March hero would have been great, but at least Captains still hold the preeminence there (though with their mounts, maybe they would keep their value anyway).
DeleteA lot of people come down hard on Strength, but Elves have problems killing things - so having a guy who can carve through high Defense warriors is great. Mostly I see him as a Heroic Move caddy, something I usually don't get with Lorien.
March would certainly have been nice, that's true. To be honest, he may have been a little much if he did have it: he already hits twice as hard as the Captain when charged and more than half as hard when charging, and that third Might point is pretty clutch. For the same price, that's probably a fair comparison when he doesn't have March and a great one when he does.
DeletePersonally, I really like GW's solution to the Captain problem of giving almost no one else March. It's such an elegant way to make otherwise inefficient models a genuine option
Couldn't agree more - and factions like Mordor, Isengard, and Minas Tirith have shown what happens when you give too many heroes 3 Might and March (Captains just disappear). I'm fine with Orophin as he is, but haven't come up with a good list to use him in yet.
DeleteGood job for selling those guys I did'nt like for a long time X ].
ReplyDeleteAs you highlithed, they're not shock cavalry, but what makes them look even badder, is that they are not shock cavalry while being in Lothlorien list.
As stated in another article, Lorien can be considered as the weakest among elven factions. It has great way to win fights (hight F (CG guards in particular), Rumil...) but has not great tools to deal damage (Elk, Aiglos, Bruinen, wrath, lances abd so on). So it's a double suffering. Your cav cannot shred ennemy lines and you were already lacking punch. Just imagine what it would feel if KoMT did'nt have lances.
So Lorien is doomed to play in the long run and stall until high F / DEF and throwing weapons make a dffirerence.
While the other Elven factions seem to have more punch, it's pretty hard for them to get good numbers because their heroes are so good and their warriors are really expensive. I'm playing around with an 800pt Lothlorien list right now that has 45 models in it - something unheard of for Rivendell or Thanduil's Halls. That's where Lorien really shines, I think.
Delete