Good morning gamers,
With THRO 2020 approaching, I had a tough time settling on the army I was bringing. I had six very strong contestants in the running and almost all of them showed up in my series on List Building that I worked on for more than half the year. In this post, I wanted to go through what we know about the tournament and why I chose the army that I did.
THRO is a "safe" tournament for players in our TMAT community to run - it's not our "grand tournament," and is often used to experiment with new tournament formats, scenarios, and weird faction pairings. We've seen LOTS of custom scenarios, trying out new army building methods, thematic battles (we did a Rohan/Lothlorien vs. Isengard/Dunland tournament one year), all-hero forces (including the Fellowship and all-Ringwraiths) - it's been great. More importantly, it's a great tournament BECAUSE it's so wonky for new Tournament Directors to cut their teeth. This year, Red Jacket wanted a swing at it - so I happily stepped aside to "just go to a tournament" (something I haven't done in a long time).
Here's what we knew about THRO 2020:
- 700 point limit
- 3 rounds, each 2 hours in length
- Scenarios will be Lords of Battle, Storm the Camp, and Breakthrough
With that in mind, here's what I figured:
- Some of my factions fight better at 800 points than they do at 700 - Mordor comes to mind, as does Rohan.
- Some of my factions can play at 700 or 800 just as well - Isengard, Minas Tirith, and the Kingdom of Moria in particular.
- We don't have to worry about Maelstrom or any "race to the center" missions (though there is a race-to-the-other-corner, so speed is an issue).
- Because there's a two hour time limit, we don't want an army that will take forever to move.
With all this in mind, the List Builiding Series came in clutch, since those principles are based on creating armies that have a chance of winning any scenario you draw (ruling some out is just gravy). So, let's look at the five runners up and see why I chose not to use them.
#6: The King Arrives (Minas Tirith + Dead of Dunharrow)
I ran this list at 750 points against Centaur in a maelstrom fight during quarantine - and it worked pretty well. I've also used this army at 700 points against my son AND fought against this army being used by my son at 700 points. Despite only having 4 Might points on paper, the list works surprisingly well (and has the double-threat of the King of the Dead and King Aragorn - two heroes that certain armies just don't want to see). Here's the list:
- Minas Tirith: Aragorn, King Elessar on armored horse [Army Leader]
- 4 Knights of Minas Tirith with shields
- 8 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shield
- 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shield, spear, and bow
- HISTORICAL ALLY: The King of the Dead
- 5 Warriors of the Dead with shields
- 4 Warriors of the Dead with shields and spears
- 1 Warrior of the Dead with shield, spear, and banner
This army can be run as either two warbands or three (depending on how many Warriors of the Dead you feel comfortable bringing with the King of the Dead). I can say that not having any maelstrom fights makes this list far more viable than the alternative.
Ruling out this list was easy: my son Gorgoroth registered for the Tournament and this is more or less the list he wanted to run. :) He ended up taking Barad-Dur, but I detached myself pretty early on from running this list.
#5: The Lord of the Golden Hall (Rohan)
Thanks to the release of the Battle for Pelennor Fields box set, I own Rohan again - years ago, I traded my Rohan Riders to my mate The Black Prince for his bucket of "useless" Mordor Orcs (who did guard-duty for my Ringwraiths until being sent up to Angmar). With 23 Riders of Rohan, 24 Warriors of Rohan, and four epic heroes, I've had Rohan on my mind for a while.
The Legendary Legions for Rohan (for the most part) are really good - the Riders of Theoden are a dominant list anywhere, the Defenders of Helms Deep are really good if you don't mind leaving your horses at home (with all the Heroic March in that army, I don't think you need them for speed), and the Paths of the Druadan provide you with a nice mix of invincible cavalry (when it comes to difficult terrain) and skirmish infantry (15 Woses plus Ghan-Buri-Ghan required). The other Rohan Legions leave something to be desired (the Riders of Eomer, Theodred's Guard, and Helm's Guard all lack proper killing heroes to support their main killers - Eomer, Theodred, and Helm Hammerhand respectively).
Me, I like the vanilla Rohan army - it was first and it was good. Why? Because Theodred is really good at killing things and he's best supported in a "vanilla" Rohan army. With Gamling, Theoden, and Eomer working alongside him, armies that choose to focus on stalling Theodred will find someone else that's pounding down the doors elsewhere. Here's what the army looks like:
- Rohan: Theoden, King of Rohan on armored horse with heavy armor and shield [Army Leader]
- Rohan: Theodred, Heir of Rohan on horse with shield and throwing spears
- 3 Riders of Rohan
- 1 Rider of Rohan with banner
- 1 Warrior of Rohan with shield and throwing spears
- Rohan: Eomer, Marshal of the Riddermark on horse with shield and throwing spears
- 4 Riders of Rohan
- 1 Warrior of Rohan with bow
- Rohan: Gamling, Captain of Rohan on horse with Royal Standard of Rohan
No Royal Guard in this list - I prefer the flexibility of the Riders of Rohan (F4/S4 on the charge is just fine, ability to use bows provides some nice, reasonably-cheap options for dealing with spam armies). I got to try this list out right after the FAQs limited how much Might you can get with Gamling each turn (I play-tested against my Isengard army before then as well), but I'd be really green with it and be learning a lot.
That's the primary reason I didn't want to take it this year - I'll probably wait until next year to give it a whirl so I have time make changes (more throwing spears, Royal Guards maybe?). I COULD have traded out the two Warriors of Rohan for a Rider of Rohan with throwing spears, running it this way got me one extra models which boosted my break point.
#4: Shadow and Flame (Moria)
I got a Balrog not too long ago and I want to use him. I want to use him badly. I REALLY want to use him. :) I've gotten some test games in with him and would love to bring him to a tournament. Frankly, I've waffled on bringing this more than any other list, so I expect that this will be a strong contender for the spring tournament - more on that in a few. With the four most essential pieces to any Moria army (Balrog, Moria Goblin Captain, Moria Goblin Drum, and Warg Marauder), here's the list:
- The Balrog [Army Leader]
- 5 Moria Goblin Warriors with shields
- 5 Moria Goblin Warriors with spears
- 1 Bat Swarm
- Moria Goblin Captain with shield
- 1 Moria Goblin Drum
- 1 Warg Marauder
- 5 Moria Goblin Warriors with Orc bows
- Moria Blackshield Captain
- 3 Moria Goblin Warriors with shields
- 4 Moria Goblin Warriors with spears
- 3 Moria Goblin Warriors with Orc bows
With only 32 models, we don't have a big army (and only our heroes are D6+), but we do have a fast army. Between the Bat Swarm and the Warg Marauder (and the marching Balrog), we've got incredible board control. We have 8-10 Orc bow shots if we need to get in a shooting war (we don't really want to, but the option is there) paired with the amazing Fiery Lash (which is the best throwing weapon in the game, perhaps only eclipsed by the Watcher in the Water's Tentacles).
The first warband features the Balrog (obviously) and a Bat Swarm to allow him to auto-win any fight on a 6. The Bat Swarm is also great in scenarios where we need an infantry model to dig up objectives (though objectives in woods are not great). 10 Moria Goblins serve as flankers, protecting the Balrog against any aggressors.
The second warband has the three most important supporting pieces in it: a Moria Goblin Captain, the Warg Marauder, and the Moria Goblin Drum. The Captain's job is simple: deploy near the Balrog and March him wherever he needs to go. If he does more than that, great. The Warg Marauder allows us to play scenarios that require us to get places really well (especially Storm the Camp). With the ability to drop off two passengers OR have a 4 Attack Terror-causing model charge into a fight, you've got some amazing capabilities here. The Drum gives most of the battlefield a banner reroll as well as a Courage boost to our Goblins (and a Courage debuff to enemy models). My son pointed out to me that the Warg Marauder also gets a Courage boost while a Goblin is mounted on the Warg from it's Lethal Union rule, so he's C4 while the drum is being played . . .
The last warband is my stock-standard "foxhole" warband, designed to hold onto a position for a long time, relying on a few archers to force my opponent to come to me and then swapping formation to spear-support the front-ranks. I much prefer Prowlers in the front rank, but I wasn't dropping this list down to 30 models to accommodate more Prowlers (at 800 points, definitely).
The primary reason I didn't take this list is because of its model count and low Defense. While I've played this list at 700 before, I feel more comfortable at 800 points with it. If I run the Spring tournament, expect that tournament to be an 800 point tournament and this list to be a strong competitor for it . . .
#3: The White Rider (Minas Tirith)
This list is taken almost straight out of the List Building series - I've played it a few times and really enjoyed it. Yes, it has Gandalf the White instead of Boromir. Yes, Denethor is the army leader. Yes, we're incredibly low on Might. But unlike the Minas Tirith/Dead of Dunharrow mosh-up we talked about earlier, this army is pretty evenly split between F3 and F4. With a 12-man shieldwall anvil, a 12-man F4 Ranger/OsVet anvil, and some floating Knights/Rangers to harass the enemy and buy Gandalf the White time to do damage, this team could have what it takes to do REALLY well. Here's the list:
- Minas Tirith: Denethor, Steward of Gondor [Army Leader]
- 5 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields
- 6 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shields and spears
- 1 Warrior of Minas Tirith with shield, spear, and banner
- Minas Tirith: Gandalf the White on Shadowfax
- 6 Rangers of Gondor
- 4 Knights of Minas Tirith with shields
- Minas Tirith: Faramir, Captain of Gondor with bow
- 6 Rangers of Gondor with spears
- 6 Osgiliath Veterans with shields
With a very impressive 37 models, this army was the largest army we considered taking to this tournament. While Gandalf the White is a very dominant spell-caster, the Might in this army was my biggest concern to taking it to THRO. I like it a lot and I look forward to running it, but the few times I've run this list, running out of Might has been the biggest set-back. I think I need more practice before these guys come out for a tournament.
#2: The Lady of Light (Lothlorien)
I'm going to say it - I really wanted to take this list. Not only do I have a new Haldir model I want to try out, but I also have some Galadhrim Knights with shields and Elf bows - which are SWEET! Lots of throwing weapons in this list (because Wood Elves over Galadhrim) and lots of fun new toys clearly means I should run it. But . . . I'm saving it for the spring tournament. :) Might have some nasty competition with the Balrog and 'is boyz, but we'll see. No preview of the army right now though. :)
#1 - and our THRO 2020 army is: Raise the White Hand! (Isengard)
Yes, I've been wanting to run Isengard since the new edition came out. Almost two years later, I'm taking my famed Uruk boys to our first tournament since quarantine (and our first tournament of the year, thanks to quarantine). The list looks like this:
- Isengard: Saruman [Army Leader]
- INDEPENDENT: Grima Wormtongue (could be deployed with my opponent)
- 3 Uruk-Hai Berserkers
- 5 Uruk-Hai Warriors with shields
- 7 Uruk-Hai Warriors with pikes
- 1 Uruk-Hai Warrior with pike and banner
- Isengard: Mauhur
- 5 Uruk-Hai Marauders with shields
- Isengard: Thrydan Wolfsbane on horse
- 10 Uruk-Hai Scouts with Uruk-Hai bows
This list is both very similar and very different from the list I did for the List Building Series. While the heroes are the same and many of the warriors are the same, I've dropped the 2 Dunlending Warriors with shields to upgrade 3 of the Uruk-Hai to Berserkers. Courage is a thing and having a few all-but-Fearless models isn't a bad thing. Besides that, we've centralized our two pike walls into one warband to shield Saruman and given all of the archers to Thrydan.
I could have dropped Thrydan and Mauhur to get Lurtz and Ugluk, but we would a) lose the Marauder upgrade and be forced to take Warg Riders to preserve our fast troop quota, b) we'd trade an excellent hero-crushing hero in Thrydan for an okay hero-crushing hero in Lurtz, and c) we'd trade a troop-killing machine in Mauhur for an okay-hero-killing machine in Ugluk. I know people rag on Mauhur, but I like this pairing a lot.
With 35 models, this list is pretty big for being a 700-point list. With F4 across the warriors (and F5 across the heroes), we've got pretty good Fight Values to rely on (and the pikes will allow for Feinting with the front ranks with two potential support rolls, which is really nice). Between Saruman and Grima, I think we can neutralize enemy heroes and protect Thrydan as he goes hero-hunting (though he is pretty good at clearing out warriors too).
In the test games I've played, I can say the biggest problem for this force is trying to pass Courage tests when there's a Harbinger around: with predominantly C3 warriors (who become C2), I fail a lot of Courage tests. Against these kinds of armies, we don't want to have to rely on our Berserkers to do all the charging, so we're going to rely on our bows and Saruman instead and force our opponents to come to us.
Here are the lists we know are coming:
Centaur: Hordes of the Carrock
- Azog's Legion: Azog with Heavy Armor
and White Warg (Army Leader)
- HISTORICAL ALLY: Azog's Hunters: Narzug
- 12 Hunter Orcs with orc
bows
- HISTORICAL ALLY: Azog's Hunters: Fimbul the Hunter
- 3 Hunter Orcs with two-handed
weapons
- 5 Hunter Orcs
- 4 Fell Wargs
- HISTORICAL ALLY: Azog's Hunters: Hunter Orc Captain
with Two-Handed Weapon
- 3 Hunter Orcs with
Two-Handed Weapons
- 1 Hunter Orc with
Banner
- 6 Hunter Orcs
Points: 700
Unit Count: 38
Might/Will/Fate: 14 / 7 / 5
Broken/Quartered:
20/29 casualties sustained
Azog is a beast, but he's not hard to dismount with Sorcerous Blast. I've fought Azog with mages before (Radagast, Elrond, and Arwen), so I know Azog has a vulnerability to magic. Fimbul and Narzug don't scare me too much, though Thrydan's horse is a bit concerned.
The biggest threat is from the Hunter Orcs - I have superior FV and will wound them on 4s at least, but there are more of them! With 2 Attacks each (and S4 to make my D6 units waste their Defense buff), it'll be interesting to see how they do against my battle line.
Rythbryt: Angmar Reborn
- Angmar: The Witch-King of
Angmar (3/16/3) with the Crown of Morgul on Fell Beast (Army Leader)
- 4 Angmar Orc Warriors
with spears and picks
- 1 Angmar Orc Warrior
with pick
- 2 Dead Marsh Spectres
- Angmar: Barrow-Wight
- 6 Angmar Orc Warriors
with shields and picks
- 1 Angmar Orc Warriors
with shield and sword
- 2 Angmar Orc Warriors
with spears and picks
- Angmar: Barrow-Wight
- 6 Angmar Orc Warriors
with shields and picks
- 1 Angmar Orc Warrior
with shield and sword
- 2 Angmar Orc Warriors
with spears and picks
- Angmar: Barrow-Wight
- 6 Angmar Orc Warriors
with orc bows and picks
- Angmar: Wild Warg Chieftain
- 4 Warg Riders with
Shields
- 2 Wild Wargs
Points: 700
Unit Count: 42
Might/Will/Fate: 5 / 33 / 4
Broken/Quartered:
22/32 casualties sustained
I play tested my Isengard list against a Mordor army Rythbryt was thinking of running. The Mordor list had Terror in it and the Witch-King . . . and this list is basically the same thing but with more Terror because now all the Orcs cause Terror too. Oh, and I think I talked Rythbryt into taking the Fell Beast after I forcibly dismounted him with a Sorcerous Blast . . .
Thankfully, there's a simple adjustment that can be made to my battle line to make it fight Terror armies better, so we'll see if it works. The Barrow-Wights will require me to be careful with my heroes, but mostly I'm planning on shooting for as long as I can to carve out the Orcs protecting the Barrow-Wights.
That WWC is going to be important to kill early - they are nasty for their points and more resilient against magic than most things. Saruman and Thrydan get that job - Saruman's help is probably unnecessary, except that an Immobilized/Prone Warg won't be killing anything..
The Witch-King will also be a menace . . . I do need to take him out early, so we'll see how that goes . . .
Red Jacket: Forth Eorlingas
- Rohan: Theoden, King of Rohan with heavy armor, shield, and armored horse (Army Leader)
- 4 Rohan Royal Guard
with throwing spears and horse
- 4 Riders of Rohan with
ax
- 2 Rohan Outriders
- Rohan: Eomer, Marshal of the
Riddermark with heavy armor, shield, throwing spears, armored horse
- 2 Rohan Royal Guard with
throwing spears and horse
- 4 Riders of Rohan with
ax and throwing spears
- 1 Rider of Rohan with
banner
- Rohan: Erkenbrand, Captain of
Rohan with horse
- 1 Rohan Royal Guard
with throwing spears and horse
- 5 Westfold Redshields
with throwing spears
Points: 699
Unit Count: 26
Might/Will/Fate: 9 / 7 / 5
Broken/Quartered:
14/20 casualties sustained
All those beautiful horses: one good round of shooting and Sorcerous Blast to dismount the heroes and we're good. :) We got a practice game in last week, and let's just say that we both knocked the snot out of each other. For thematic reasons (not necessarily competitive reasons), my Uruks like this match-up a lot. :)
The biggest concern I have is the mixture of Royal Guards and Riders of Rohan - the Royal Guards on the charge near Theoden will be F5, while the Riders of Rohan could be S5 on the charge with Piercing Strike.
The Black Prince: The Royal House
- Rohan: Theoden,
King of Rohan with heavy armor and armored horse (Army Leader)
- 8 Riders of Rohan with
ax and throwing spears
- Rohan: Theodred, Heir of
Rohan with throwing spears and horse
- 4 Riders of Rohan with
ax and throwing spears
- Rohan: Dernhelm with armor,
shield, throwing spears, and horse
- Eowyn with armor,
shield, throwing spears*
- Merry with armor, and
shield*
- 2 Riders of
Rohan with ax and throwing spears
- Rohan: Eomer, Marshal of the
Riddermark with heavy armor, shield, throwing spears, armored horse
- 5 Riders of Rohan with
ax and throwing spears
Points: 699
Unit Count: 23
Might/Will/Fate: 12 / 12 / 9
Broken/Quartered:
12/18 casualties sustained
[EDIT: at the tournament, it was pointed out that Theodred didn't have throwing spears and instead Theoden had a shield - will moderate my comments below, which I'm not going to change.]
More horses! The list picks up Dernhelm, who won't be hard to beat once she's dismounted and Theoden dies (she'll come running and stay there). WHERE Theoden dies will be the trick, but Saruman can handle that. The problem will be dealing with Dernhelm AND Theoden AND Eomer AND Theodred (though neither Theoden nor Theodred have shields, so they're "only D6"). Engaging slowly will be the key - they all become a lot less dangerous once they become dismounted.
The other big threat is all of the throwing spears in the list - only Theoden can't do damage at range (Merry has the 8" Throw stones) which will be a problem for my D5 army. Once dismounted, however, these guys become D4 (can't chuck their bows in the current rules set when dismounted) and are limited to F3. If I can engage them, I'm feeling okay about those match-ups.
Gorgoroth: The Dark Lord Comes
- The Dark Lord Sauron
(Army Leader)
- 3 Black Numenoreans
- 1 Orc Warrior with
shield
- 2 Orc Warriors with
shields and spears
- 1 Orc Warrior with
shield, spear, and banner
- 5 Orc Warriors with Orc
bows
- 4 Orc Warriors with Orc
bows and spears
- Ringwraith on horse with
2M/8W/1F
- 6 Orc Warriors with
shields
- 6 Orc Warriors with
shields and spears
Points: 700
Unit Count: 30
Might/Will/Fate: 5 / 14+ / 1
Broken/Quartered:
16/23 casualties sustained (and Sauron has suffered 3+ Wounds)
Sauron. . . . It's Sauron. . . . I mean, it's Sauron . . .
Yet another F3 army for the most part, some Terror, some bows. Fewer soldiers though means I can control the board pretty well and he needs to chomp through my guys quickly. Saruman will need to hold up Sauron for as long as possible (dismounting the ringwraith would be good too), but if I can get a good Immobilize off, Thrydan can sail in and try to wound Sauron (3 Attacks on the charge, wounding on 5s if he uses his two-handed axe to piercing strike). Two successful wounds (blossoming into 4 wounds) will see those Orcs breaking normally and we can just leave Sauron alone. In the practice game I've played against this list, this didn't happen by the way . . .
Zorro: A Shadow in the East
- Amdur, Lord of Blades with armored horse (Army Leader)
- 12 Easterling Warriors with shields and pikes
- 2 Easterling Warriors with bows
- 1 Easterling Warrior with banner
- Easterling Dragon Knight with armored horse
- 6 Black Dragon Kataphrakts
- Shagrat, Captain of Cirith Ungol with heavy armor and Shield of Cirith Ungol
Points: 700
Unit Count: 36
Might/Will/Fate: 8 / 6 / 4
Broken/Quartered: 19/28 casualties sustained
I'm of the opinion that Easterlings are men who wish they were Uruk-Hai. ;-) As I mentioned in my post on Easterlings in our recent list-building series, allying in Shagrat is a great way to get some extra killing power into an Easterling force. This particular list (I assume) is placing the Easterling pikemen behind a line of Black Numenoreans. These units can't use Phalanx without trapping the Black Numenoreans, but they can use their pikes like spears (and occasionally double-up if there is room for the closer pike to back up without the second one moving).
A Terror wall of Black Numenoreans could be difficult for some armies to fight, but since there are several Terror armies here (Angmar and Barad-Dur in particular), I wouldn't say this is new. This IS the first army that is predominantly D6, but since S4 is all over the place in the lists that are being brought, I'm not sure how much of an impact this will have on the game (except for my archery).
Speaking of archery, we've never seen Easterling lists that bring lots of archery (so only having 2 bows in this list isn't THAT much of a surprise), but not having a Drum on one of those Kataphrakts is an interesting choice (especially considering that there is a good bit of shooting and magic in all of the other lists - and certainly more shooting and magic than are in this list). I'm guessing this list is counting on slogging through archery, relying on its D6 warriors (and D7 heroes if the cavalry heroes are benefitting from The Gleaming Horde special rule) to "just survive."
I'll let you know how the tournament goes - hoping to get some of it recorded for the blog (one of the perks of not running the tournament). Until next time, happy hobbying!
Looks like a fun list! I'm always so nervous with Thryadan's 2 Attacks, but he does have an interesting capacity to spike lots of wounds. I think Isengard really suffers from not being able to give mounts to most of their characters; Lurtz or Mauhur would be way more terrifying if they could get Knockdown and an extra Attack. Good luck!
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree, though they are plenty scary without mounts when Saruman and Grima are on the table!
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