Good morning gamers,
This post was supposed to kick off our April series, but Centaur got busy, so you get this article either a day late or six days early, depending on your perspective. Today and through April, we're back with Dwarves - but this time, we're plowing through the Iron Hills Dwarf Warriors from the Armies of the Hobbit and the Armies of Middle-Earth! My son has used these guys a ton - they're a bit expensive for 1 Attack infantry, but they're incredibly durable and if you can manage to get good numbers with them, you can find yourself with the numbers advantage pretty quickly and then the battle swings hard in your favor.
The list that I think showcases these guys the best is Erebor Reclaimed. When I first read the updated rules for the Champs (three in particular) and saw the army list special rules, I was absolutely flabbergasted that they weren't the meta. I think there's a lot going for this list - so let's see what we have to work with and how it's changed from previous editions of the game.
- King Thorin is 130pts base (140pts with Orcrist) and lost access to the goat . . . which is not great. That said, the boost to F7, free Heroic Combats if he charges, everyone treating him like a banner (an upgrade from last edition), and Hatred (Gundabad) to pair with two-handing Orcrist makes him a powerhouse into many matchups. With a banner and a spear support, he can clear out a lot of guys while he's charging - and with 3 Might and charge-capable Marching, he can certainly get into the enemy quickly and hit hard! I really like Thorin and think he's pretty much an auto-include in Erebor Reclaimed lists.
- Balin is still a cheap Hero of Valour at 60pts and got better this edition, getting to S4 (finally) and 2 Attacks. His two-handed weapon isn't as punishing as it once was (not only because having 2 Attacks with a two-hander is good, but also because two-handing penalties aren't applied to natural 6s on your dueling roll and because there's a cheap friend in this list who can take those penalties away). For Family Ties, Balin's reduced price offsets the price of Dwalin, so that could also be viewed as a good thing.
- Dwalin also lost his goat option and comes in now at 110pts base with the option to either get 3 Attacks at F6/S5 OR 2 Attacks with +1 To Wound and no penalties. His King's Axeman rule allows him to do the old-school Piercing Strike special strike if he's within 3" of Thorin, which you might want to use if you're against an even-Defense unit and using Grasper & Keeper with your 3 Attacks. Together, Dwalin and Balin have 4M/5W/4F for 170pts.
- Fili is still 70pts and hasn't really changed. Combat Synergy now gives a banner-like reroll if they flip places during a phase and you don't have to be touching each other (just within 1"), so if you like the matchups you're in, you can flip in the Shoot Phase and then Flip in the Fight Phase to get back into their original fights and still get the banner reroll. If you don't like the matchup . . . well, you can flip once and see if that helps. :) With F5 and 3-Might-and-Strike, I'm not sure that Striking is really something you want to count on, but 3 Might and March makes this guy a pretty good option for getting your army places.
- Kili has the exact same profile as Fili, but he trades Heroic Strength for Heroic Challenge. I'm not sure that you want either of them to use those heroics when you could be calling Moves/Marches, but like Fili, he has the ability to get dueling rerolls if he's close to Fili and you're packing a LOT of Might if you run these two guys together (Kili and Fili have 6M/4W/2F for 140pts).
- Dori used to be the cheapest Weapon Master unit in this list and he used to have 3 Attacks base. Now he gets 3 Attacks and rerolling dueling rolls of 1 (sort of like a banner? sort of?) if he's within 3" of either Ori or Nori . . . which is not as good as he used to be. For 75pts, he's got good stats to borrow with 2M/2W/2F and Heroic Resolve/Defense, so he's not a terrible pick, but you definitely want him alongside one of his brothers (and frankly, I think he's the worst of the three - though admittedly, you can assume that while Ori is alive, he's got 3 Attacks/rerolling dueling 1s because you DEFINITELY want Ori within 3" of him).
- Nori is also 75pts and he's finally D9 with F5/3A . . . oh, and he's got throwing weapons and the same stats as Dori. Yeah, there's a reason I don't think you run Dori - Nori is just so much better! Yes, 3 Attacks with +1 To Wound is better than 3 Attacks normal, but 6 dice while shielding with D9 is a great way to stall an enemy unit that doesn't have Rend, so I'd take Nori over Dori every time. But I'd take our next chap over both of these guys every day . . .
- Ori is only 50pts now and he's always been good to have - the opportunity to regain Might/Will/Fate by killing enemy heroes/monsters is a nice skill to have. WIth 2M/2W/2F like his brothers, Ori is a great resource battery that can produce even more resources over time. With F4/S3/2A, he's not much on offense, but with a two-handed weapon and a rule that makes other Erebor heroes ignore their two-handed weapon penalties while within 6" of himself, Ori becomes the only unit in your list who has to worry about getting natural 6s in his duels. This is super slick with Dori, but also good with Thorin and several other guys we'll see below. For a 50-point Hero of Fortitude, I'm not sure you can do better. Together with either Dori or Nori (probably Nori - unless you really want that two-handing bonus), Ori and <your pick> have 4M/4W/4F for 125pts.
- Oin is another cheap hero at 60pts and now has 2 Attacks base with the ability to defend by shielding (with F4/S4, he's fine attacking, but he's also great as a roadblock with Heroic Defense). He has a slightly-worse Master of Battle (5+) rule from his Hearing Trumpet (copies an enemy heroic action on a 5+ for free, has to spend a Will point or can't move if he's out of Will on a 1), but still heals someone in base contact on a 4+ and can give an Erebor friend within 6" a banner-like reroll by spending Will. With 1M/5W/1F, it's pretty clear that he's there for (effectively) Master of Battle and banner duty (that stacks with an actual banner). He's also a great way to make sure you aren't locked down by spell-casters if you also brought . . .
- Gloin is 100pts and he's the big winner in this list. He's got F6/3A with the opportunity to get 4 Attacks if he's outnumbered and while his two-handed weapon might suffer from the dueling penalty, it also might not if you can just roll 6s (natural 6 expected ~40% of the time with 4 Attacks) or if Ori is nearby. With 3M/2W/3F (like his son), Gloin is probably the best deal of a hero you can get besides Thorin and Ori - I'd take him every time (even above a Family Ties option for helping Ori out). Together Oin and Gloin have 4M/7W/4F for 160pts.
- Bifur has gone from being an auto-include to being a maybe-include now that his Embedded Axe isn't an automatic Heroic Move. With Intelligence 7+ and no way to boost it besides using Might (which he's only a 1-Might hero), he's still more likely than not to get a free Heroic Move off after he's gotten the axe head out. While he still needs to successfully wound with a single die and S4, I've never failed to get the wound to work . . . so he might still be worth including. That said, with only 1M/2W/2F, he's not helping you March places effectively, so you're counting on an expected higher Might store by calling free Moves - and if he doesn't do that, he's definitely not worth taking over . . .
- Bofur got a HUGE glow-up from a recent FAQ where his Steadfast rule was basically ruled to cancel out anything your opponent is counting on that is an Active/Passive special rule. If you don't want Harbinger affecting you, get a 3+ on your Steadfast roll. If one of your Erebor models is about to be bowled over by a Monstrous Charge or a Thrown Stones, get a 3+ on your Steadfast roll. Don't want Aunduril carving up your fellow Champs? Turn that off on a 3+ too. Like Bifur, Bofur can only fight two-handed, so you probably want Ori backing them up - but he also has throwing weapons and now sports a 2M/1W/2F profile. He doesn't Strike anymore, but that's fine - F5 and Strike aren't the threat they used to be. For 65pts, I think Bofur is great (and as my favorite Dwarf companion from the films, this makes me very happy). OH, and he can also take the Stumpy Troll Brute war beast for himself if you want to have Bofur glomp his way through the enemy and have an even BIGGER radius for turning things off . . . I don't know how good this actually is, but it seems fun!
- Bombur might still be the best hero of the three cousins, however. He's only 60pts, can fight with a hand-and-a-half weapon instead of having to fight two-handed, he's got Dominant (2), and with 3 Wounds/2 Fate and Heroic Defense, he's a great speed-bump hero into someone big. Lumbering prohibits Heroic Moves, but it doesn't prohibit Heroic Marches - and while giving Will points back to an Erebor hero within 3" might not be the best heroic resource to restore, you'll be grateful if you're fighting casters and can restore some of that Will. Togethether Bofur and Bombur have 3M/4W/4F for 125pts.
- Dain Ironfoot is probably not going to show up in your lists - he's a higher or equal cost as buying any of the two pairs of Champs above except Dwalin and Balin (who cost 10pts more). No one in any of the pairs will fight as well as Dain does on their own (F7/S5/3A with no two-handing penalties) and none of them will be as resilient on their own either (D8/3 Wounds/3 Fate) - but cumulatively, any pairing that you see above will give you the same or more Might/Will/Fate than Dain has on his own and usually will do so at a discount. Is Dain going to be better into some matchups than Kili and Fili? Probably. Is getting +3 Might on them better for moving your army than walking with Dain (who can't get his pig in this list)? Probably. Unlike Thorin, Dain doesn't get free Heroic Combats, so if he wants that big combat profile to come to bear, he needs to burn Might - and since he can't borrow Might like the others can, I think he's just patently worse in this list than your other options. Speaking of a worse option . . .
- Iron Hills Captains are still very good (Master of Battle (5+) with F5/S4/D8-9 is still good value for under 100pts), but they're not great in this list. The usual reason to bring these guys is because you want a March Captain that can bring Iron Hills Dwarves to the fight . . . but everyone has March in this list, so he needs to be better than the Champs in order to compete and he simply isn't as good as they are. While I will definitely be recommending these guys in other lists, skip on these guys in this list.
- Iron Hills Dwarves are fabulous for their cost - they're double-digits per guy for F4 units, but with S4/D7-8 if equipped with shields, they're incredibly hard to shift and they do well against most shieldwalls. Being F4 with no way to get F5 help in this list isn't that great, but since their primary job is to buy time for your heroes to do their thing, I think they're more than adequate - paying 60pts for a block of 5 guys to escort a hero means you can get slightly-low numbers with lots of Might and killing power for 110-200pts! I also think the mattock weapon option isn't a trap - while the crossbow, shield/spear, and shield/banner are clearly good options, taking a mattock if it helps you spend a few left-over points and eek an extra guy out of it isn't a bad thing (and since I was a fan of mattocks in the last edition when they didn't retain their 6s to win the duel, it should come as no surprise that I like them this edition too).
- If you want to maximize Might, take Kili/Fili (23.33pts/Might point, runner up was Nori/Ori at 31.25pts/Might point - that's a pretty big gulf!);
- If you want to maximize on Fate, take either Nori/Ori or Bofur/Bombur (31.25pts/Fate point);
- If you want to maximize on all resources, take Nori/Ori (10.42pts/resource, runner up was Oin/Gloin with 10.67pts/resource - very close run, mostly because Oin is cheap and has 5 Will points . . . Oin and Gloin were by far and away the best choice for maximizing Will for cost);
- If you want to maximize on total Attacks, take Nori/Ori (25pts/Attack, runner up was Oin/Gloin with 26.67pts/Attack - another close run, though I will note that I made the assumption that neither Nori nor Oin was shielding because it would have jacked up their numbers even higher, but I did assume that Dwalin was using Grasper & Keeper and that Gloin was engaged with two people); and
- If you want to maximize on total Fight Value, take either Nori/Ori or Bofur/Bombur (13.89pts/Fight Value - Kili/Fili came in third with 14.00pts/Fight Value, so they're roughly the same as what you're getting from these other pairs).







I feel like this list is especially good at lower points levels(Go to is Thorin ,Gloin ori and either oin or bofur). At higher points I tend to want to lean more into the heavy hitters in the lists rather than the family ties. What do you think about something like this at 800 points? And does Dain ever fit into this 800 points | 36 models
ReplyDeleteErebor Reclaimed
Thorin Oakenshield, King Under the Mountain: Orcrist (140)
6x Iron Hills Warrior: Shield and spear (72)
2x Iron Hills Warrior: Mattock (22)
Dwalin the Dwarf, Champion of Erebor: (110)
6x Iron Hills Warrior: Shield and spear (72)
2x Iron Hills Warrior: Mattock (22)
Gloin the Dwarf, Champion of Erebor: (100)
1x Iron Hills Warrior: Banner (35)
6x Iron Hills Warrior: Shield and spear (72)
2x Iron Hills Warrior: Mattock (22)
Ori the Dwarf, Champion of Erebor: (50)
6x Iron Hills Warrior: Shield and spear (72)
1x Iron Hills Warrior: Mattock (11)
That is a solid 800pt list, though I would personally drop Dwalin for someone else. At 110pts, you can get either Dori or Nori to do Family Ties with Ori and get more models OR you can drop a few models to get Nori and Oin, Bofur and Bombir, or Kili and Fili. I like those combos for 125-140 more - though Dwalin does hit very hard.
DeleteI struggle to get Dain on any of these lists - he's much better in Iron Hills/Battle of Five Armies where having fewer heroes is less penalizing.
Dwalin I definitely think is the wild card. I think only at 800 points I prefer Dwalin over Nori here because it gives me a third F6+ Strike hero rather than adding another F5 hero, while still keeping the same number of Strike-capable heroes overall. At 800 points, I like having Dwalin and Gloin tie up the opponent’s big heroes and force them to spend Might, while Thorin is free to use Heroic Combats and then come in later with F7/Strike once their Might is depleted
DeleteBut all in all love your blog and list opinions! You guys rock.
This may be a niche opinion, but I like Dwalin at this points level. While Nori will get you (mostly) three extra dwarves (so a 39 model count), and Dwalin is not as beastly as he was last edition, he's still sneakily good at assassinating heroes thanks to the Fight 6, the base Strength 5, and the three attacks plus essential Mighty Blow on natural sixes if you use Grasper and Keeper. If you can get him to trap a hero who is D7 or below (which is most heroes), six dice wounding on 5s (with 6s dealing 2 wounds) deals 4+ wounds a lot more often than you think (since a single "6" and a single "5" on six dice gives you a start of 3 wounds). D8 heroes are tougher to crack, although a Heroic Strength on Dwalin jumps him to S10, which will wound those heroes on 3s if you use Grasper & Keeper (not bad), or 2s if you two-hand. I still tend to think Gloin is _slightly_ better (cheaper, 3 attacks base, potential for 4 attacks, etc.), although in this list (without the Gimli rerolls), I've found the two-handing penalty if you can't roll a 6 plus the cap at S4 with a +1 to-wound (plus the fact that it's almost impossible for Gloin to trap a model _and_ get four attacks unless you get some help from the terrain and your opponent) means Dwalin's overall damage output is slightly more reliable.
DeleteNori is also a great choice--but in this particular list and at this particular points level, I tend to think the drop from F6 to F5 plus the loss of the Might Point/Grasper & Keeper burst damage potential outweighs the potential benefit of adding almost 3 warriors (it won't actually be three unless you make one of them a mattock guy... which isn't the worst thing in the world, but for most lists isn't exactly ideal). Nori is much better at snatching relics (which, with the special rules in this list, he might actually be fast enough to do) and at tanking bigger heroes, but he can't apply the same pressure to enemy heroes that Dwalin can. And if you fight elves, Numenoreans, berserkers, or other F5 troops on a regular basis (or see a lot of D7 warriors), Dwalin will chew through them much more reliably.
My two cents. :)
Alas, unless you decide to take Dain instead of Thorin (which you _can_ do, but probably won't because Thorin is so efficient for what he does), I would agree Dain is hard to take here--mostly because (1) you can get Gloin plus Ori for a little less than Dain (or Gloin plus Nori for a little more), which is probably better value; and (2) the one thing that Dain offers over all the other named heroes (heroic march--except for Thorin, who again is the far more efficient choice) is the thing this list gives all heroes for free.
DeleteFearless on all your warriors is very good. But apart from that (and the second F7 hero, of course), Dain isn't providing you much more than Gloin or Dwalin in combat (because he can't take the boar and has no Master of Battle), and less than one of them plus Ori.
That said, I could see him being the backbone of an "everyone who didn't ride away on the goats" list, if you want to be thematic. You wouldn't have Thorin, Dwalin, Balin, Fili, or Kili, but you could still take Gloin, Nori, Ori, and a banner with Dain and get to 36 models. It's got less spike damage potential (and you lose the second banner effect from taking Thorin), but the troops are a tad bit more reliable if you see a lot of Terror.
I guess my perspective on Nori is that he's more of a Rumil than an Orophin - 6 attacks while shielding with D9 and 2 Fate with the potential for more Fate if Ori is around is pretty difficult to chop through. I accept that his damage level is lower, but I don't know that you need that slot filled with Thorin and Gloin backed by Ori in this list? Anyway, not going to belabor it more. :-)
Delete