Good morning gamers,
When Centaur and I got started playing MESBG, the first armies Centaur collected were Isengard and Rohan (very thematic choices). While Eomer, Warriors of Rohan, and Rohan Royal Guards became the mainstays of Centaur's Rohan army (and still are today, actually), Isengard was always led by Ugluk and Vrasku and behind them were a host of Orc Warriors (cheap bodies with access to spears) and Uruk-Hai Scouts. While the Uruk-Hai Scouts play a central role in one of the most exciting combat sequences of the Lord of the Rings films, their use in MESBG is often relegated to the two Legendary Legions that rely on them for good Fight Value and Strength (Ugluk's Scouts and Lurtz's Scouts).
This is a shame, because Uruk-Hai Scouts are actually quite good in MESBG, but due to a variety of reasons, they just don't see as much play. Since both Centaur (hi guys!) and I love Uruk-Hai Scouts, I decided to do a tag-team with him in this article - but I'm going to limit my scope to the value that Uruk-Hai Scouts have in the generic Isengard faction (allied or pure), NOT these Legions (though I have some thoughts on the Ugluk's Scouts legion regarding how these guys pair with orcs, which we'll talk about below). Anyone who's played with Ugluk's Scouts or Lurtz's Scouts knows how invaluable these guys are to the line-up (they're either all you have or one of two warrior choices you have), but their utility in the general Isengard faction is questionable. So today, while discussions about these two Legions will certainly arise, we're going to focus our efforts on addressing the utility of Scouts in Isengard generally.
Photo Credit: Warhammer Community |
We're also going to broaden the discussion a bit to Uruk-Hai Scout Captains, who often vie unsuccessfully for slots with Uruk-Hai Captains (aka, the "guys from Helm's Deep") - these guys have a good place in Isengard lists too, despite the dominance of their more armored cousins. Let's see what's so "bad" about these Scout models before we talk about what's so good about them . . .
Why NOT To Take Uruk-Hai Scouts
Our discussion of Uruk-Hai Scouts begins with a look at Uruk-Hai Warriors: when I got started collecting Isengard (about two months after Centaur because our good friend/fellow admin-on-hiatus Zorro bought a TON of Uruk-Hai Warriors used on eBay), I was like, "why would I invest in Uruk-Hai Scouts when I could pay +1 point/model to get +1 Defense with Uruk-Hai Warriors?" In most respects, Uruk-Hai Scouts and Uruk-Hai Warriors are the same, except that the Uruk-Hai Warriors pay +1 point to get heavy armor instead of standard armor and the equipment choices they can take. We'll get into war gear next, but the first reason most players avoid Uruk-Hai Scouts is because their armor gets increased.
Both Uruk-Hai Warriors and Uruk-Hai Scouts can have shields, which means Uruk-Hai Scouts can have a maximum Defense stat of 5, while Uruk-Hai Warriors can reach D6. When I got started with Uruk-Hai, I had 18 Uruk-Hai Warriors with shields - and I ran all 18 of them every time I fielded my Isengard army (because we had a LOT of people playing with Elves and Dwarves who were toting S3 bows). Being wounded on 6s is a big deal in this game - especially if your units are expensive (which a 10-point Uruk-Hai Warrior is - and a 9-point Uruk-Hai Scout kind of is). Everything that an Uruk-Hai Scout can do with a shield can also be done by an Uruk-Hai Warrior . . . but he'll do it for a few dollars more and possibly a little bit better.
Uruk-Hai Scouts and Uruk-Hai Warriors can also carry banners - and here the difference in defense might be negligible. Centaur runs his Uruk-Hai Scouts with banners and shields (D5), while I run my Uruk-Hai Warriors with banners and pikes (D5) and my Uruk-Hai Scouts with banners and Uruk-Hai bows (D4). You certainly can run an Uruk-Hai Warrior with banner and shield (D6), but you can't benefit from the defense bonus of a shield and a pike, so if you want the D6 on the banner, he'll be standing there waving his flag around but NOT contributing an additional die to a nearby fight. If you don't mind that, then great - take the shield.
Besides shields and banners, the wargear options for Uruk-Hai Scouts and Uruk-Hai Warriors diverges, with Uruk-Hai Scouts having access to Uruk-Hai bows (18" S3 bows - which used to be 18" S2 Orc bows in a previous edition) and Uruk-Hai Warriors having crossbows (24" S4 bows that can't move and shoot in the same turn). While crossbow Uruks are 2 points/model more expensive than Uruk-Hai bow Scouts, their increased range often means that they can shoot a turn sooner than Uruk-Hai bows - or can shoot on the same turn with a better shoot value (since both Scouts and Warriors have a 4+ Shoot Value and the Scouts would need to move-and-shoot to fire on the same turn). S4 has the potential to wound even-Defense enemy targets on an easier difficulty, and since most armies max out at D6 for their warriors, this makes crossbows chop through most "tough units" more easily than Uruk-Hai bows. For many players, there really isn't a comparison.
When we look at the generic Uruk-Hai heroes, both profiles add the option for two-handed weapons (your choice of type, though the Uruk-Hai Scout Captain has a two-handed axe modeled on it). Centaur always jumps for the two-handed axe on his Uruk-Hai Scout Captain and I usually jump for a two-handed axe on the Uruk-Hai Uber-Captain when I run the Assault Upon Helm's Deep Legendary Legion. Two-handed weapons on a S5 model are good - but with base D5 on an Uruk-Hai Scout Captain and base D6 on an Uruk-Hai Captain, I think most players who aren't Centaur would probably take the normal Captain over the Scout variant. Of course, with access to shields and crossbows/Uruk-Hai bows, paired with the general hesitance for players to USE two-handed weapons unless there's a dueling penalty bypass rule in play, there is a question about whether the two-handed weapon is even a good option on these guys (though Centaur and I clearly do - for more on this, check out my In Defense Of article on this very topic).
Uruk-Hai Scouts don't have other war gear options, but Uruk-Hai Warriors add another choice: pikes. It took me a LONG time to really appreciate how good pikes are (and a good way to use them two-deep) and at first blush, they wouldn't appear to be as good as Uruk-Hai Scouts with shields (higher cost, same Defense, can't defend by shielding, suffers a dueling penalty without a Defense boost if you use a pike and a shield together) - but depending on what you're pike-supporting (other Uruk-Hai or Dunlendings/Wild Men), Uruk-Hai Warriors with pikes allow you to get more dice with S4 into a fight (and F4 if your front guy isn't an Uruk-Hai). With careful positioning, this can be absolutely deadly.
Speaking of Dunlendings and Wild Men, there are other front-line units in Isengard that can provide benefits that Uruk-Hai Scouts just don't have - Dunlending Warriors have basically the same profile as an Uruk-Hai Scout (-1FV for -1pt/model) but begin with axes instead of swords (so they can be S5 - and their Fight Value can be F4 if they're backed by a pike). Wild Men of Dunland are lacking in a bunch of departments (-1 Fight Value, -1 Strength, -2 Defense), but at 4 points less per model, you can get almost two Wild Men for the cost of each Uruk-Hai Scout - and the total cost of 2 Wild Men of Dunland and 2 Uruk-Hai Warriors with pikes is only a little more expensive than 3 Uruk-Hai Scouts with shields! Even Orc Warriors (-1 Fight Value, -1 Strength, and -1 Courage for -3pts/model) aren't bad options if you're willing to Piercing Strike with their picks (mitigates the Strength difference when the Strength increase would actually help) while being pike-supported by an Uruk-Hai Warrior! If you're okay with Defense 5 in the front line, any of these options will be cheaper than an Uruk-Hai Scout and all you might be missing out on is the Feint from the Scout (assuming he has an Uruk-Hai Warrior with pike backing him up).
But the comparison to other units in the Isengard faction gets worse if you're willing to consider more expensive units than Uruk-Hai Scouts. Uruk-Hai Berserkers were a staple of the international Isengard scene back when Berserkers were always D6, but even with the changes to their profile in the MESBG revamp, they're still good value - albeit a bit expensive per model (+1 Attack, +4 Courage, +1 Defense against shooting attacks, and a 6+ save against all wounds for +6 points/model compared to a Scout with shield). You can also get Feral Uruk-Hai, which most players in the international community view as having no place competitively - perhaps we need to cover these guys specifically in this series - since they're basically cheaper Berserkers with a slightly reduced profile (compared to an Uruk-Hai Scout with shield, they've got +1 Attack, -1 Defense, +2 Courage, and a 6+ save against all wounds for +4 points/model). Centaur loves these guys - and actually prefers them over Berserkers - and will be the first to say that they fill a role that the Scouts with shields just don't fill (more on that below as well).
Finally, while we're doing the comparison to other Isengard units, we need to compare Uruk-Hai Scouts to the fast units available to Isengard. If fielded in Mauhur's warband (or in any Uruk-led warband in either the Lurtz's Scouts Legendary Legion or the Ugluk's Scouts Legendary Legion if Mauhur is included in the list), Uruk-Hai Scouts can be upgraded to Uruk-Hai Maruaders for 1 point/model (this upgrade is free in both Legions) and gain +2" of movement - which makes Scouts with shields the same cost as Uruk-Hai Warriors with shields or Scouts with Uruk-Hai bows 1 point cheaper than Uruk-Hai Warriors with crossbows. While this gives them an edge over Uruk-Hai Warriors in a few situations, it doesn't make them as fast as the mounted or flying unit options that Isengard has.
Warg Riders are the OG when it comes to Isengard cavalry - and with S4 from the Warg, the only real edge an Uruk-Hai Marauder has over a Warg Rider is F4 (the Warg Rider is also C2, but the +2" of movement and the charge bonuses that Warg Riders usually gain make up for this). Dunlending Horsemen were introduced with War in Rohan and are basically Warg Riders with a free one-handed axe, S4 on the rider instead of the mount, and a niche special rule for wounding enemy mounts better. Both of these options are 12 points/model, which is only 2 points more than the Uruks themselves (though neither are F4). Crebain are the fastest units Isengard has (12" move from Fly) and are also some of the hardest units to shoot (hit on a 6 - though you don't want these guys providing in-the-ways where your opponent can shoot at the models behind them and then get an in-the-way hit on them on a 1-3). Most of their stats are worse (-2 Fight Value, -2 Strength, and -2 Defense), but with 2 Attacks/4 Wounds (and the increased speed/resilience against archery), if you're looking for models to claim/hold objectives, it's hard to not pick a 20-point Crebain model or three instead of a pack of Uruk-Hai Marauders.
That . . . was a lot more than I thought I was going to write about the woes of Uruk-Hai Scouts. The pity about it is that, depending on your perspective, about half of what you just read is wrong. :) Some of the critiques you just read are certainly true (taken in certain lights, they're all true - that's the thing about this series), but let's look back at what Uruk-Hai Scouts are supposed to do for your army in order to see what a hidden gem they are . . .
Why TO take Uruk-Hai Scouts
My defense of Uruk-Hai Scouts begins with the following statement: Uruk-Hai Scouts give you an average profile for average cost - with above average Strength thrown in. F4 has become the gold standard for a lot of lists - Dwarves are at least F4, many Man-based factions - both Good and Evil - have F4 troops they can field (or units they can boost to F4), and Uruk-Hai are F4 (of course). To put a finer point on it, there are only four factions from the Forces of Good (The Shire, The Dead of Dunharrow, The Wildmen of Druadan, and The Survivors of Lake-town) and four factions from the Forces of Evil (Angmar, Sharkey's Rogues, Azog's Hunters, and Goblin-town) that can't have non-monster warriors in their army who are all F4+ - and most of THOSE factions can have F4+ units historically or conveniently allied into them (all but Sharkey's Rogues). Uruk-Hai Scouts are F4 - which is exactly what you want in a core warrior unit (and it's something that you just won't get if you have an Orc or a Dunlending in the front rank).
Uruk-Hai Scouts also have some gimme stats that are good for an average profile - 1 Attack/1 Wound is standard on units as lowly as Goblin Warriors and Hobbit Militia to hyper elite units like Guards of the Galadhrim Court and Khazad Guards. While Isengard has units that can have more than 1 Attack, they come with a hefty price tag (the Ferals slightly less so than the Berserkers - and a lot less so than the Crebain) and Uruk-Hai Scouts CAN have 2 Attacks if they defend by shielding (but more on that later).
Courage 3 isn't bad for a Forces of Evil army - and if you have your army bonus (which allows your Isengard units to not have to take courage tests for breaking until you've lost two-thirds of your army instead of one-half) and Saruman or Ugluk in your army (both of whom can keep your warriors and heroes in line), Courage 3 could be all that you need. If you're really concerned about passing Courage tests, Uruk-Hai Shamans aren't that expensive and if you were going to buy 9 Berserkers to solve the Courage problem, you can downgrade those all expensive D5 units to Uruk-Hai Scouts with shields and get an Uruk-Hai Shaman with the savings (well, the savings and 1 additional point).
Finally, Uruk-Hai Scouts have D4 base and can have Defense 5 if you give them a shield. The difference between D4 and D5 isn't always that pronounced and is very dependent on the units your opponent chose to field. While there is certainly a lot of S3 melee and ranged attacks out there, there is also a lot of S2 ranged attacks, S4 ranged attacks, and S4 melee attacks (with a very vocal S2 melee attack minority west of Bree). Against these foes, being D5 is just fine - and can actually mean you're more optimized to fight these threats than a D6 Uruk-Hai line would be.
(Furthermore, D5 even against S3-4 isn't a bad Defense value. If you assume you're up against an enemy infantry backed by a spear, you've got two dice coming at you. Each dice has a 1/3 chance of wounding, so your chance of being wounded is decent but not great. It's not a foregone conclusion that you're gone. As someone who has played hobbits a lot, and thus gotten used to how often someone will fail to wound a D3 model, D5 is not that bad. Especially if it means you can get a few more bodies into your force due to points savings to cover losses from archery)
But the real kicker for the Uruk-Hai Scout statline is the Strength 4 - if your opponent decided that D6 was necessary to survive (or that he could get away with being S4 because there's so much S3 out there), then you've got his number! Uruk-Hai Scouts aren't that expensive, and since paying for Strength or Defense doesn't necessarily mean you get an advantage, they are one of the best units to lean into in order to fight against some of the most common melee stat lines in the game (F4/S4/D6 - rarely found in a single profile, but often possible if you've got a spearman providing one of the Fight/Strength stats and the front-line guy providing the other) and against some of the game's most oppressive archery forces (Rangers of Gondor, Goblin Warriors in the Assault on Lothlorien, Beornings, and anyone with a crossbow).
Uruk-Hai Scouts can also be supported cheaply by Orc Warriors with spears (optionally shields), which can make their F4/S4 file cheaper than elite shieldwall files OR as expensive as weaker shieldwall files. I don't know how many of my scrums against Centaur's Uruk-Hai Scouts backed by Orcs I've lost, but golly it's been a lot - and this is particularly true if the shieldwall lined up against them doesn't have F4 (like my Angmar Orc horde lacked in our 2023 TMAT GT). In that particular event, Centaur was using Ugluk's Scouts, which plays this game really well (Uruks backed by Orcs), but you don't have to be in that Legion to get the benefits of this - 15-16pts/file is going to be pretty hard to match if you've got an Uruk in there!
(A note here on the legion, but it applies generally when using Uruk Marauders backed by any spears/pikes. Some people will say this doesn't work well because of the 8" Marauder movement and the 6" spear movement: in these scenarios, don't be afraid to charge ahead of your spears if you're the second player moving. Just move up your marauders, engage where prudent (namely: don't charge enemy heroes), and shield for the turn. Use your high Fight Value to push the enemy back, and move up the spears as far up as you can so that you can support on the next turn. Your line will hold up, assuming law of averages and my experience translating to your table, and then you're ready for a big push the next turn with a massive front line backed up by spears. Wrapping opponents and trapping opponents is very easy, short of board design getting in the way of you getting that many bodies into the fight)
The final note I'll make about Uruk-Hai Scouts with shields is how well they work as tools to stall out enemy heroes. There are MANY hero units who are S4 and either don't get a +1 To Wound or don't get a +1 To Wound without getting the charge/suffering a dueling penalty - and when they're on the board, you want a unit that's D5 (and ideally is NOT D6) and can defend by shielding. Why? Because an Uruk-Hai Scout with shield who defends by shielding has a roughly 56% chance (0.5556 probability) of getting a 5-high or a 6-high on his dice - and if the hero only gets a 4-high (which he might if he's a 2-Attack hero who was counting on getting more dice from his mount), the hero is faced with the difficult choice of spending Might to boost his dueling roll (assuming he has the higher Fight Value and isn't boosting to get to a roll-off) OR failing to win the fight and not contributing any kills this round. 2-Attack heroes - and even 3-Attack heroes - can be really fickle (check out my Fantasy Fellowship journey from last year for examples of whiffing rolls regularly with 3-4 Attack heroes), and when they fail, you just need a decently good roll to make things costly. All of this from a 9-point unit? I'll take that.
But this becomes even more dangerous if Saruman is in your army, since he's likely forcing heroes to spend resources just to do what they want to do (moving forward, making Strikes, calling heroics) - and if an Immobilized hero is fighting an Uruk-Hai Scout who chose not to defend by shielding (since he knows he can't be wounded) and THAT Uruk-Hai Scout gets a good dueling roll (or could there be multiple Scouts in the fight? Supporting Orc spearmen?) . . . what do you do? I mean, the chance that a "lowly warrior model" wounds you can be quite real if you're not D7+ . . . do you risk it or do you boost the roll knowing that you can't wound? Even now, I don't know which I'd choose as a matter of course . . .
All of these things, by the way, are mostly true of Uruk-Hai Scout Captains as well - these guys are at least D5, but pair with it a solid profile of F5/S5 on offense and 2 Attacks/Wounds (perfectly normal) and 2 Might/1 Will/1 Fate (also perfectly normal). With C4 and Heroic March, these guys are about as normal as they come - but their normalness means a pretty normal cost (and that makes them really good). If you give them the shield (which I think is only useful if you intend for them to blunt an enemy hero by shielding - I think in all other situations the Uruk-Hai bow or the two-handed weapon is the better choice), they can be D6 and very difficult for basic warriors to deal with.
Let's pivot now to talk about the other upgrades that Uruk-Hai Scouts can take. Before the new edition, I defaulted to taking Uruk-Hai Scouts with Orc bows (yes, they were Orc bows before - and were uniformly dismissed as an inferior option to crossbows by EVERYONE except me). Why? Because archers are swordsmen and my crossbows were never near the action once I got engaged (this is a really good point, and one I've been making for a decade: if you're keeping uruk archers - or any archers - far away, you are wasting potential in close combat by not having that F4 S4 (or whatever your archer's fighting stats are) that could be contributing heavily in close combat). Sure, S4 shots can be really good. Sure, S4 doesn't really care what your Defense stat is. Sure, a crossbow gunline can shred opponents who are forced by the scenario to walk through certain corridors.
But S4 crossbows only have to shred a player once before they know to avoid that section of the board at all costs - and unless you're playing with little to no terrain, setting up a good crossbow firing arc is incredibly hard. The mobility of the now-S3 Uruk-Hai bows is exceptional - especially if you invested in an Uruk-Hai Drum, which can give your 6" move Uruk-Hai Scouts 9" of movement (which is 4.5" of movement while still being able to shoot) - and it will give your Uruk-Hai Marauders with Uruk-Hai bows 11" of movement (which means they can move at about the same speed as any Orcs or Dunlendings/Wild Men that are in your list). Since you can stack three additional inches of movement on these archers from a Heroic March (12-14" of movement), you can actually move 6-7" with these archers while still shooting if you really want it - and that makes up for the 6" less range your Uruk-Hai bows have, but you get better positioning and your bowmen can easily switch over to being melee units if you need them to be. The only price you pay is the slightly reduced To Hit roll of a 5+ instead of the 4+ of a crossbow (assuming the crossbow has a shot in the first place).
This is even MORE lethal if you kept your army bonus and these Scouts/Marauders have Woodland Creature. Being able to move through wooded terrain to gain some distance on an opponent's pursuit force (or stop in wooded terrain and take shots from behind cover) can be very frustrating for your opponent - and is something you certainly can't do with crossbows. Both Scout Legions give Woodland Creature to the Uruks in the list as well, so this strategy applies even outside of the normal Isengard list (though neither pairs this with the wait-to-test-for-breaking rule, which is just sad for the Lurtz's Scouts Legion).
Speaking of Marauders, if you buy the upgrade for your Uruk-Hai Scouts (I would ONLY buy it for Uruk-Hai Scouts with Uruk-Hai bows - not the melee guys, unless you're getting it for free in a Legion), you have the advantage of getting fast units who are F4 - and as we just mentioned, this can give you a larger range of movement than the cavalry options Isengard has if you take the Drum (and a longer range than the Crebain if you March while under the influence of a Drum). A fast hero like Thrydan (or even Mauhur or Lurtz if they're under the same influences as the Marauders) will have a much better chance of arriving alive if they've got F4 bodyguards instead of F3 horsemen (who usually can't shoot - Warg Riders can take throwing spears, but they're less reliable than the Uruk-Hai bows). Crebain may be harder to kill at a distance, but they won't kill things up close (F2/S2 just isn't good unless they've managed to trap something) - Uruk-Hai Scouts are always a danger, if they can just win a fight without having to shield.
(On this point, it's also worth noting that in woodland terrain your cavalry don't have anywhere close to this kind of speed: they have their speed quartered, and if I'm not mistaken your Crebain can't fly if they end in woodland terrain, so they're hopping at half speed. The fact that you can go 14" through woodland terrain means running relics back, chasing enemy skirmishers, and redeploying to threaten a banner or other softer units is far, far more reliable than your other fast attack options)
Finally, Uruk-Hai Scouts have the advantage of being slightly cheaper than other Uruk-Hai units, which means you can get an extra body or two in your list than you would if you ran Uruk-Hai Warriors. This is particularly useful if you built a list that you like but ended up with an odd number of units, since one additional body would increase your break point by one and might also affect your two-thirds point and quartering point as well. This can be game-altering and once again, gives you basically everything the other guys are giving you - just with a little less Defense. You can actually buff out the model count quite a bit if you also do the Orc spearman thing, but even if you have pikes backing up Scouts, you can get a little more in there - and that's got value.
Making It Work
My go-to Isengard heroes are Saruman, Grima, Thrydan, an Uruk-Hai Drummer, and Mauhur - mostly so I can get Uruk-Hai Marauders with Uruk-Hai bows. Mauhur's warband is a pack of fast archers, while Thrydan and Saruman lead a mix of Uruk-Hai Scouts (or Warriors, if I have a few points left over) and Bersekers backed by pikes. At 800 points, I have the following list (which has 40 models, 17 of which are Uruk-Hai Scouts):
- Saruman on horse [ARMY LEADER]
- INDEPENDENT: Grima Wormtongue
- INDEPENDENT: Uruk-Hai Drummer
- 4 Uruk-Hai Scouts with shields
- 7 Uruk-Hai Warriors with pikes
- 1 Uruk-Hai Warrior with pike and banner
- 4 Uruk-Hai Berserkers
- Mauhur
- 12 Uruk-Hai Marauders with Uruk-Hai bows
- Thrydan Wolfsbane on horse
- 1 Uruk-Hai Scout with shield
- 1 Uruk-Hai Warrior with shield
- 4 Uruk-Hai Warriors with pikes
- 1 Uruk-Hai Berserker
800pts, 40 models, 12 Uruk-Hai bows hitting on a 4+, 1 D6+ model, 2 cavalry + 13 fast infantry + 1 Uruk-Hai-only War Drum and 2 Might for Heroic March, 8 Might points
I've gone a different route: this list is all muscle, low defense, purely designed to maximize your offense in close combat, albeit with a few archers just to keep the enemy from hanging back. You can run this mostly as an Ugluk's Scouts list, though you have to drop Lurtz and add some orc captains, and you have to replace the Feral Uruk-Hai with other models. It brings maximum dice (including sufficient banner support) in melee combat with plenty of bodies to make sure you have insurance against archery casualties you may or may not sustain.
- Lurtz with Shield [ARMY LEADER]
- 5 Uruk Scouts with Shields
- 5 Orc Warriors with Shields and Spears
- 1 Orc Warrior with Shield, Spear, and Banner
- 4 Feral Uruk-Hai
- Ugluk
- 4 Uruk Scouts with Shields
- 4 Orc Warriors with Shields and Spears
- 1 Orc Warrior with Shield, Spear, and Banner
- 3 Feral Uruk-Hai
- Mauhur
- 6 Uruk Marauders with Shields
- 6 Uruk Marauders with Uruk-Hai Bows
- Uruk-Hai Scout Captain with Two-Handed Weapon
- 5 Uruk Scouts with Shields
- 5 Orc Warriors with Shields and Spears
- 2 Feral Uruk-Hai
800pts, 55 models, 7 Uruk-Hai Bows hitting on a 3+ (Lurtz) and a 4+ (everyone else), 1 D6 model, 13 fast infantry and 10 Might for Heroic March, 10 Might points
This list may not look like much, but it hits with 4 heroes and 9 warriors that have 2-3 Attacks, plus 16 spears (including two banners) to give even more attacks to the front lines. And with 20 uruk scouts (6 of them marauders) with shields to back them up, your front line is wide, and with a small number of speedy bows thrown in, you have enough (6-7) to keep your opponent honest about having to use cover and protect their heroes. And if you wanted to, you could convert more marauders to archers if you wanted more threat, but I've found that 6 or so is about right, especially if the board is terrain-heavy.
But the big thing is the inclusion of almost a dozen Feral Uruk-Hai: for 13pts you get 1) Courage 5, which is super useful for dealing with Terror in case you didn't want to pay for a shaman (which I didn't want to for this army for several reasons we don't need to discuss here), 2), 2 Attacks at F4 S4, which is a bargain for those stats compared to other models in the game (which are all 15pts or more), and you get a 6+ Save against all wounds, which isn't a great Save (arguably not a save at all), but it does play psychological games with enemy heroes on whether they want to risk a Heroic Combat being botched if you roll a 6 to avoid the wound. And with spears backing them up, these guys can chew through enemy front lines with relative ease if they aren't sporting D7.
Conclusion
Well, I think we covered the topic thoroughly today. :) Hopefully you learned something new about these guys - and while they certainly can be shredded if not supported well, I rather like these guys (and definitely more so now than I did 10 years ago). Next time, Centaur takes the stage on his own to defend one of his favorite Minas Tirith units - and no, it's not Osgiliath Veterans, since I've already done that. Find out what's to like amidst all the other awesome Minas Tirith warrior choices - and until then, happy hobbying!
Interesting article. I take scouts most times because I like the figures and it's thematic. I always take Mauhur with them too and upgrade the scouts to Marauders. Not tried the Ferals yet, may do so once they come back into stock, assuming they ever do! The one troop type I never EVER take now is crossbows. Utter garbage EVERY time I've used them. Yes the extra 6" range is great, as is the S4 BUT you need to stand still to use it and your opponent has to be dumb enough to run into their firing lane (if you can get one). There are just too many other options IMO that are way better than a standard Uruk body with a crossbow he'll rarely, if ever, get to use. Same goes for Vrasku. Love the model but there's just too many Uruk heroes that are more flexible, and again perform way better, than having this guy running around with a largely unusable crossbow.
ReplyDeleteI only run crossbows in the Assault Upon Helm's Deep Legion for this same reason - I much prefer the flexibility of the Uruk-Hai bows to the inflexibility of crossbows. Vrasku isn't in the Legion, so naturally, I never run him.
DeleteI concur about the crossbows. Every time Ive used them, either need to spend a turn getting into position or the enemy is behind terrain or a in the way. I don't like them at all.
DeleteGreat article as ever, an enjoyable read. I enjoy Scouts in Ugluk’s Scouts, and I do think your arguments for their use as archers are fairly compelling: crossbows are awkward to use unless you’re all in on shooting, and if you’re doing that play style in Isengard then you’re playing AoHD and can’t field Scouts anyway.
ReplyDeleteThe problem I have with them as frontline troops is that they match up poorly into most common battlelines. Elves have the edge of FV and wound the same, Dwarves have a big edge over the Scouts, Black Nums match up evenly and have Terror, Minas Tirith ranges from equal (but paying 1ppm more) to awful depending on whether they’re bringing Fountain Court and/or Boromir, Easterlings are terrifying, Beornings are terrifying, Dunharrow is scary, throwing weapon spam from AoL or Helm’s/Theodred’s Guard is scary…
You’re basically left with Morannons (a clear cut win), Angmar Orcs (very mixed thanks to Terror and price versus FV, and honestly favouring Angmar in my experience), Hunter/Gundabad Orcs in some circumstances, and maybe Goblins of various kinds (although they’re half the price, so it’s very plausible that it doesn’t work out for the Scouts there either).
Going up to D6, for a single point, flips almost all of those bad matchups into being good-okay ones. Sure, the Easterlings/WoMT/Wlves will win more fights at a similar price point, but you’ll wound them more easily when you win. It’s a huge swing that means you can actually compete on battleline grinding, for a negligible increase in points (probably 1-2 models across the line, assuming you stick with the same spear supports).
Scout archers are neat, and I agree that Scouts are as good as Uruk Warriors against heroes (i.e. both of them are equally bad, and about equally as good as Orc Warriors). But Uruk Warriors can win or draw shieldwall clashes against most armies in the game, and Uruk Scouts can’t, for one point less. For basic battleline troops I think that’s a fairly terminal weakness.
These articles are always fun to read and disagree with haha!
Sharbie
I'm just happy Blogger knew it was you. :-P The D5 instead of D6 thing was what kept me away from them for a while too - being wounded on 5s isn't great, especially if there are cheaper options for D5 troops. While Elves and men certainly struggle to reach S4, there are a lot of S4 options out there (to include Rohan, most of the Armies of the Hobbit Evil factions, basically any Dwarf list if they're willing to use Piercing Strike, and of course any Isengard mirror matches). Maybe I'm biased by what I've been fighting recently, but paying for D6 is great when it actually does something . . . and sometimes it doesn't.
DeleteIf you do find yourself up against a F5+/S3 shieldwall, perhaps the answer is just to manage the engagements - as with any D5 list, you can't always rank up and smash into the other army. Scouts can be really powerful trapping models, especially the bowmen who have been given some extra speed in Mauhur's warband.
The trick is that it didn’t allow me to comment at all on my phone, so I had to pull up my laptop to comment. It’s a kind of horseshoe effect, where a total failure on blogger’s part saves it from its normal partial failure haha
DeleteI do think that you’re selling D6 short there by reference to piercing strike: if you’re paying 1ppm to reduce your opponent’s defence by D3 then that’s an absolute bargain. Once we shift those lists back over to favouring D6 again then the list of matchups where you’d prefer the Scouts does get pretty thin.
Put another way, in a majority of matchups the D6 will make your whole frontline nearly twice as resilient, while in a minority of matchups you’ll have 1-2 less models. Against any S3 list the D6 could well save you two models in the first turn of combat! For me it’s not so much that the D6 is so essential as that you’re getting so little in return
Your point about avoiding pitched engagements is certainly true, and very relevant for Ugluk’s and especially Lurtz’ Scouts. But for vanilla Isengard, those Scouts won’t generally be any better at flanking and trapping than Uruk Warriors would (unless there are loads of forests about I guess), so it’s not really a reason to field them and more a way to play around a less optimal choice
D6 is good - but the armies I'm playing against right now are mostly S4+ (and most of those without Piercing Strike): all-mounted Rohan, Dunharrow, Erebor Reclaimed, Hunter Orcs/Gundabad Orcs, Uruk-Hai of various stripes, and Half-Trolls. There are some players who field Elves, Minas Tirith, and Easterlings, but at least where I'm at, being D5 and being D6 can be exactly the same - and that's not to say that going for D6 is bad (it's usually quite good), but it's also not everything. But yes, when I have the points free, I usually try to upgrade my Scouts with shields to Warriors with shields.
Delete