Good morning gamers,
As we continue our series of examining good models that can really wreck your day, we're turning to one of the most feared Good models in the game right now: Gwaihir. This is a monster that has incredible agility thanks to Fly, a very impressive combat profile (with only one caveat), and is incredibly survivable. But like most models in the game, there are options available to you when you see this guy on the other side of the board - none of them will be easy, but we'll review some of the tools you can use to counter him. Let's dig into why this guy is so good!
What Makes Gwaihir So Hated?
Photo Credit: Warhammer Community |
To understand why Gwaihir is such a threat, we need to begin with his alliance matrix (or two, actually). Gwaihir appears in two lists - he's a Hero of Legend in the Misty Mountains and a Hero of Valour in Radagast's Alliance. When fielded in Radagast's Alliance, he has no historical allies (since their only historical ally is the Misty Mountains - and since Gwaihir is the only hero in that list, you can't run it), but has a few Convenient Allies (all of the armies in the Armies of the Hobbit book, as well as Lothlorien, Fangorn, and the Rangers, oddly enough). If you're running one of these lists and want Gwaihir to be your grenade hero instead of your army leader, you can certainly take him from this list.
Most competitive players will field him from The Misty Mountains, however. In that list, he's a Hero of Legend (almost certainly your army leader) and he's at least Convenient Allies with every faction (and he's Historical Allies with the Fellowship, Thorin's Company, and Radagast's Alliance as was mentioned above). While the Fellowship and Thorin's Company can certainly benefit from adding Gwaihir to their ranks, most of the time you're going to see Gwaihir appear either in a pure Misty Mountain list (where you're counting on lots of flying monsters to trash enemy warriors), a monster-mash army where Gwaihir and some Eagles ally with either Ents or Bears (or both), or as a one-model drop into a more conventional force that wants a hard-hitting slayer for the low-low price of 150 points. This last one is the usual way you see Gwaihir in competitive play.
Since he can ally with everyone, what is it about this guy that makes him an attractive option (especially when compared to Elven heroes who can also ally with everyone)? For starters (as was just mentioned), Gwaihir is "only" 150 points - which is admittedly a lot to pay for a hero who probably isn't bringing any warriors to the table, but relative to the cost of other heroes, it's a steal. As the cheapest of the eight members of the F8+ club (which features Treebeard/Beechbone from the Fangorn list, Gil-Galad from the Rivendell list, Beorn in bear form from Radagast's Alliance/the Beornings LL, Smaug from the Desolator of the North list, The Dark Lord Sauron from the Barad-Dur list, and the Balrog from Moria/The Depths of Moria LL), Gwaihir is likely to have a higher Fight Value than most opposing models once everyone's out of Might. But his offensive firepower isn't just limited to a great Fight Value: with S6 (S7 on the charge if he's got either of his army bonuses - which he usually doesn't) and 2 Attacks + Monstrous Charge, it's quite likely that he's wounding troops on 4s if not 3s - and that's a lot of dead troops if he's charged into them.
On defense, Gwaihir is no slouch with D8/3 Wounds/3 Fate. Like most monsters, Gwaihir has Terror to help manage his matchups against low-Courage models and he has Fly to get the positioning he wants (charging priority models or lining up a Hurl). Tackling Gwaihir and keeping him contained is incredibly difficult - especially if you're running a predominantly infantry army that will have problems catching him.
But the biggest advantage that Gwaihir has is that he's usually accompanied by a host of allied models - the most competitive of which used to be the Army of Lake-town (cheap troops + cheap heroes = perfect horde allies - but now they need to bring Bard) and is now probably Lothlorien (usually with Galadriel as their contingent leader so Gwaihir can carry Galadriel's magical "bird bath" and regain his Fate points each turn). Though these appear to be the go-tos in Europe, we here at TMAT have seen him allied with Minas Tirith lists - and Gwaihir is a welcome addition to most armies in the game (including armies like Arnor who often look for alliance options once they get above 500pts or so). If your opponent is trying to stop a horde of warriors and some pinch-hitting heroes from claiming objectives or advancing towards their ranks, can they really deal with a flying monster (who may not be worth any VPs if he's not the army leader)?
Yep, Gwaihir is a dangerous foe - so what options are open to us to counter him? Let's look at a few of them next.
How Do You Fight Back Against Gwaihir?
If Gwaihir's profile has a weakness, it's that he has a base Attack stat of 2. This isn't uncommon - most heroes/super-elite-warriors have 2 Attacks - but most monsters have 3+ Attacks (besides Gwaihir, the list of 1-2 Attack monsters is limited to Great Eagles, Shelob, and the Spider Queen). All of these models have Monstrous Charge, so they can all get +1 Attack IF they charge, but if they don't, they're capped at 2 Attacks. How do we make this work for us? Charge Gwaihir if you can - and get 4 dice in the fight.
A math post I did earlier this year provided some simple math facts you could remember for MESBG in order to set expectations and one of those math facts was that if you have the lower Fight Value in a fight, you want to have 2, 4, or 8 dice in the fight if your opponent has 1, 2, or 3 dice in the fight respectively in order to have a 50% or better chance of winning the dueling roll. This math doesn't account for using Might to boost rolls - and about 30-40% of the time, Gwaihir's going to win the fight by default by getting a natural 6 - but getting 4 dice in a fight isn't hard to do and any Might he spends to win the fight is Might he's not using to call heroic actions (most notably Combats, but also Defenses against big foes and the occasional Strike).
Charging Gwaihir does something else for you besides keeping him at 2 Attacks: even if you lose the fight to him, your models won't be Knocked Prone, so he'll have two dice to wound you - at which point, wounding on 4s might mean 1 model dies, but losing 2 models is unlikely. Sure, if he wounds you on 3s, it's certainly possible for two guys to die - but if you've got D5+ in the fight, you're planning on one guy dying. If Gwaihir is only killing one guy during a turn (and may even need to spend Might to win), that's pretty good.
This assumes, of course, that you can CATCH Gwaihir - which isn't that hard to do once he commits (unless he Heroic Combats away from the action - which is actually a really good idea when the engagement starts, but isn't a sustainable strategy). If you need to draw him to you, you need high-volume shooting that you're happy to direct elsewhere. This is the same strategy we talked about last time with Gulavhar - except this time, our target is D8 with 3 Fate points instead of D5 with 0 Fate points. Yes, Gwaihir can stand up to archery far better than Gulavhar can, but the thing about shooting in MESBG is that it's high-risk, high-reward - your opponent doesn't get a say in shooting after he's done moving his models. If you can deal some damage at a distance and force him to charge instead of carefully picking his targets, you're in good shape. Some units do this far better than others, but we'll talk about that later.
Third, it is POSSIBLE for "big heroes" to challenge him - as we've already said, with Gwaihir maxing out at 3 Attacks, he's probably on the level with most big heroes OR has fewer Attacks. Gwaihir's F8 is good, but unless he calls a Strike, even F5 models have a 50% chance of beating his Fight Value if they can Strike. Whether they wound him well or not is still up for debate, but someone like Aragorn, Azog, or either of the monsters we've looked at so far in this series (the Balrog and Gulavhar) aren't feeling that worried about challenging him - especially if they get the charge. We'll go into this in a bit more detail later too, but the list of models that "can" wound Gwaihir should they win is actually quite large (though admittedly, most are at least as expensive as Gwaihir).
Finally, Gwaihir - like most monsters - is actually quite vulnerable to magical powers. He's got 3 Will to be sure, but unless you ally him with Gandalf the White (which is tempting), he probably doesn't have access to Fortify Spirit (and unless Radagast is on the board, he probably doesn't have access to Resistant to Magic either). With 3 Will and no free resist dice, it only takes a few casts to get him neutralized. This gets easier, of course, if your casters have increased range (say, 18" range - which only two casters have) or if you have more than one caster to hit him. Short-range spells (3-6") are going to be hard to position against Gwaihir, but if he gets locked into combat, they can be NASTY.
Okay, with this quick analysis done, let's take a look at some models you can include in your army to fight this guy!
Tiberius's Top 5 Models To Counter Gwaihir
As has very quickly become a standard for me, I can't keep my list to only five models. :) So, I have an "honorable mention" and a "dishonorable mention" to introduce the lists - and boy are they mean . . .
Honorable Mention: Bat Swarms with Druzhag the Beastcaller
While there isn't much that's "honorable" about Bat Swarms, it's undeniable that a model that can half the Fight Value of models it engages is going to be a nasty blow to high-Fight monsters. Usually, Terror is enough to keep these kinds of pests away - but if Druzhag casts Fury, these guys are going to get in so long as they're within 6" of him. If they start their move 7-12" away from him, they won't benefit from Fury, but they CAN use his C4 (C5 if there's a drum or war horn boosting his Courage rating) instead of their own paltry C2. While this isn't a guarantee of passing, it's certainly not bad and more likely to succeed than fail.
Druzhag doesn't just give them Fury, though - he can also buff one Bat Swarm to go from F1/S3/2A to become F3/S5/4A - and remember our goal is to have 4 dice in the fight! Ideally, however, you aren't buffing the bat swarm - you're buffing a Wild Warg, a Giant Spider (maybe a Venom-back spider if Ashrak is in your list), or even a Wild Warg Chieftain so you have the Fight Value advantage and 2-3x the number of dice Gwaihir is rolling. You may even get a trap in - which makes winning that fight Gwaihir's #1 priority. While this is a dirty trick, it does try to beat Gwaihir down in a "conventional" way . . . albeit with a handicap applied to his Fight Value . . .
If you don't think this is "honorable," compare it to . . .
Dishonorable Mention: Those Darned "Assault" Legions (the Assault Upon Helm's Deep and the Assault on Lothlorien)
Do you remember how I said high-volume archery was a good way to get Gwaihir to commit? Well, both of the most oppressive Legions in the game right now do just that - crossbows that wound on 6s, Orc bows at night that effectively wound on 6s (6/5+ turns into a 5/4+ difficulty, which is the same probability of wounding as straight-6s), and in one Legion ballistas that wound on 4s . . . yeah, he's coming to you.
What's more, if he HIDES from your shooting, you can tear up the rest of his army pretty easily. These Legions don't really care whether you've got a Gulavhar, Gwaihir, or Fell Beast in your ranks if they have space between you and them at the start - they're going to give you a pounding and then throw bodies at you to stall you out once you commit.
But I must add that these guys didn't make the ACTUAL list because the idea of shooting Gwaihir to death is incredibly scenario-dependent. Yes, you can do it - and you can do it in a fair number of scenarios. But between Maelstrom missions and center-line deployment missions, you just might not have the opportunity to do it. So . . . I'll give them a (dis)honorable mention, but not actually rank them on the list.
Pick #5: Beorn (and/or Grimbeorn) from the Beornings LL
I've tried on the whole to find models that can go toe-to-toe with Gwaihir - or more appropriately, are the kinds of models that Gwaihir doesn't WANT to go toe-to-toe with. That list is actually quite small - but near the top of the pile are Beorn and Grimbeorn (especially if they're in their Legendary Legion). Both of these guys are properly big monsters in their own right (and will be covered later in this series) but they have a few things that make them particularly good counters to Gwaihir. First and foremost, they have an 8" move, which allows them to catch up to Gwaihir if he tries to get away from them. As an ally to Gwaihir, Beorn can keep pace with the flying monsters pretty well and clean up whatever Gwaihir doesn't want to fight (or engages first so Gwaihir can be a bit more deliberate with his approach) - but as enemies, Gwaihir doesn't want to be anywhere near these guys because he could be one Heroic Combat away from having one of them right up in his grill.
Secondly, both Beorn and Grimbeorn in their bear forms are base Strength 8, which is going to be higher than Gwaihir has unless he calls a Heroic Strength (which almost no one does). With the lower Strength value, Gwaihir isn't knocking these guys over, so those 3 Attacks that will wound on 5s (or 2 Attacks that wound on 5s if he Rends - nothing gained there) are going to bounce off the bears. In their Legion, the damage is even less likely to be effective since the bears ALSO get a 6+ save . . .
Finally, the bears have the Crushing Strength Brutal Power Attack, which deals a S10 hit to one foe in their fight (aka Gwaihir) and if they wound (on a 3+ - unless Heroic Defense has been called), they get to do it again and again and again until they kill the thing OR they fail to Wound (and oh by the way, they can use Might to boost these wounding rolls). Gwaihir's 3 Wounds/3 Fate goes a long way in these kinds of things, but getting a cascading set of successes on a 3+ can happen - I mean, when was the last time you dealt like 6 wounds with Anduril to someone that you charged and knocked over? Yeah, it happens - and Gwaihir would rather NOT be there when they choose to crush something.
Gwaihir's best defense against this is calling Heroic Defense - his best defense against monsters in general is to call Heroic Defense - and since you know he CAN do it, your goal with the bears is simple:
If you're Beorn, pass on calling Heroics until after Gwaihir has committed to something; if you're Grimbeorn, call a Heroic Strike to force Gwaihir to commit to something.
Since Gwaihir has to commit to his heroic action before the winner of the fight is determined, Gwaihir is in an interesting predicament against Beorn: he can keep a tied Fight Value and call Heroic Defense (which gives Beorn a few different options) OR he can keep a tied Fight Value against Beorn and call nothing (which is good for Beorn, so long as he can win the duel/roll-off) OR he can call a Strike (which gives Beorn the choice of counter-calling the Strike or not calling any heroic actions since he'll be wounded on 5s). There aren't really any good options for Gwaihir - especially if he's running low on Might or doesn't have the charge.
Against Grimbeorn, it's kind of worse - because Grimbeorn is going to call the Strike. This means Gwaihir has to accept having the lower Fight Value (1-in-6 chance of having a tied Fight Value, I guess) and call Heroic Defense OR counter-call the Heroic Strike (which could be a waste of Might if Grimbeorn gets a 1 on his Strike roll). There is no third option where you get to "just live on a tie" here - you have to commit. And if you're burning your resources fighting Grimbeorn (who, again, you wound on 5s without knocking him over), then what's Beorn doing to the rest of your team?
These guys are a pretty hard out against Gwaihir - but they're also predominantly seen in one Legendary Legion (and not one that everyone likes to play). Competitive though it be, this is way too specialized of an option for dealing with Gwaihir, which is why I placed them below . . .
Pick #4: Dain Ironfoot, Lord of the Iron Hills (along with other "proper-big" heroes)
When I evaluated the best "slayer heroes" for the Forces of Good, Dain Ironfoot ranked really, REALLY high. In fact, he was SO good, that I had him #2 behind Elessar (though in raw killing power, he was #3 behind the Champ-Chariot - but thanks to the way I weighted auric buffs, he ended up beating out the Chariot). Regardless of where you put "Young Dain," he's a powerhouse - F6/S5/3A with a mount and Burly. WOWZERS, this guy can beat down just about anything.
Not only that, but he is one of the few man-sized models that starts at S5 and has Heroic Strength, which is either guaranteed to shut off Monstrous Charge from Gwaihir (if Gwaihir doesn't have his army bonus) or on a 3+ (if he does have his army bonus). If you do this, you're not only saving his precious pig, but you're probably also not taking that much damage since Gwaihir's just getting 3 Attacks against you (and since your Strength is going up, Rending is unlikely to be easier than wounding you normally . . . which Gwaihir will do on 5s). Yep, there are few road-stops in the game like Dain Ironfoot. The only way you're getting knocked over is if Gwaihir calls a Heroic Strength too . . . and you want him to burn his Might.
But why Dain specifically? For starters, he has the Lord of the Iron Hills rule, which gives him a 12" auto-pass Courage tests rule for his Iron Hills Dwarves and Iron Hills Goat Riders - perfect for doing the "get 4 dice in a fight" approach if you want to wear Gwaihir down before Dain comes in. Also, because Iron Hills Dwarves/Goat Riders are S4 (and the goats have +1 To Wound if they charge), they're wounding Gwaihir on a single die (6s for Iron Hills Dwarves and 5s for Goat Riders) and are wounded in return on 5s (4s for Goat Riders - 3s for one poor bloke if Gwaihir chooses to Rend). Yep, you can hold that bird up for quite a while if you're careful about it.
Dain is also great because he can be fielded with Iron Hills Dwarves from two lists - The Iron Hills gives you historical alliance options with the Army of Thror, the Halls of Thranduil, and the Survivors of Lake-town (convenient alliance options with the Army of Lake-town, Erebor Reclaimed, the three monster lists, the two other Elf lists, Thorin's Company, and The White Council). If you like to field armies from the Armies of the Hobbit, Dain with some Iron Hills Dwarves (and maybe a Ballista?) are a pretty good add - albeit an expensive one. If you don't want the Ballista, you get similar options by fielding Dain as a Hero of Valour from the Erebor Reclaimed list (no Army of Thror or Thorin's Company, but the rest is all the same). If you're looking for a simple allied drop, I think the Iron Hills might be the better option, but I leave it to you.
If you like the Armies of the Lord of the Rings, you have a few other options for beater heroes - but none that are going to quite match the raw offensive power of Dain, good-not-great maneuverability while on his pig, and the auto-passing Courage tests that he gives. Elessar is pretty reliable anytime you want to get something done (and Guards of the Fountain Court are basically Iron Hills Dwarves without the S4) and Treebeard would be a pretty nice roadblock too (hurling rocks until Gwaihir engages, then hoping he catches him). Elendil is pretty similar to Dain, but his troops will also have to test before they charge him (though their offensive throughput is about as close to Iron Hills Dwarves as you're going to find . . . their defense, not so much though).
These plans ultimately assume that you WANT to go head-to-head against Gwaihir with something big (that very well may be your army leader). If you'd like to have some more open options for blunting Gwaihir without big heroes, may I recommend . . .
Pick #3: Warriors of the Dead (or any list that can get D7+ troops)
Yep, it's the Dead of Dunharrow - and basically anything that's going to be D8+ (D7+ if Gwaihir doesn't have either of his army bonuses). Why? Because even with Monstrous Charge, he's wounding each of these guys on 5s. Two dice looking for 5s only has a 56% chance of wounding a model, so if you can charge Gwaihir with 2 models (and ideally back them up with spears/have a banner in range to get to 4-5 dice on your side vs. 2 dice on his side), even if you lose, you should expect to lose only 1 model. That's pretty sweet! If Gwaihir charges you, each of his wounding dice pairs only has a 56% chance of working as well, so he might kill 1-2 models, but he might not.
But it gets even better: if you're running Warriors of the Dead with the King of the Dead, and if the King of the Dead is within 12" of Gwaihir and has his Harbinger of Evil special rule (Dunharrow army bonus or the Return of the King Legendary Legion), Gwaihir will go down from C6 to C5, which means your Warriors of the Dead will wound him on 5s! Those Dwarves we just talked about are pretty tough, but even they were struggling to get to the 5s level! Other factions may not be able to get to wounding on 5s, but all Dwarf factions can wound him on straight 6s (and if you've got a D7 "bunker-captain" with heavy armor and a shield, you're probably in the same boat).
Now not everyone can get to D7 - this is where you'll want to decide if throwing D6 troops in his face is worth it (he'll wound them on 4s, but if you can get 4-8 dice in the fight, you can at least make him pay Might to win half the time). Not all D6 troops are created equal (you may need Fury or Bodyguard or something to pass those Courage tests), but there's no reason why a solid roadblock of warriors couldn't respond to where he was charging. No one does it better than the Warriors of the Dead, though. If you want a sneakier approach, however, you might want to try . . .
Pick #2: Floi Stonehand
Yes, we're going to do a "fun with Floi" segment in today's post because one of the best kings of shenanigans is Floi Stonehand from the Kingdom of Khazad-Dum/Moria. I had to look up his army list inclusion rule again and it says, "If your force contains Floi, then the only other named Hero from this list that it may contain is Balin the Dwarf, King of Moria." Simply put, this means you can't field him with Durin, Mardin, Gimli, Oin, or Ori, but you can field him with Balin (who makes your list Impossible Allies with everyone) . . . or a Dwarf King (which makes your list Convenient Allies with a surprising number of factions). Floi's "The Living Lore" rule will be far more useful with Balin (without Balin, only Floi will have the Moria keyword, so only enemy hero/monster models killed by Floi will get him Will points back), but otherwise a Dwarf King would be an excellent choice if you're looking to ally.
Now the cost of Floi (75pts) and a Dwarf King (75-85pts) is surprisingly low (the same cost as Gwaihir, actually, if you don't get any upgrades on the King) - and since Dwarf Warriors with shields or Dwarf Bows are only 9pts/model (and Dwarf Rangers with bows or throwing axes are only 9pts/model too), you can get a pretty good contingent of bodies for ~350pts (2 heroes and 21-22 warriors, depending on whether you want gear on the Dwarf King). As a pocket-full-of-power, that's not bad at all.
Khazad-Dum doesn't have any historical allies (Dwarves are stingy after all), but you can ally conveniently with the three Elven factions, two of the monster factions (Misty Mountains and Fangorn), Arnor, and the White Council - if you wanted a decent contingent of Dwarves to supplement a conventional force, this means Floi is an option for Elf and Arnor forces . . . which can both benefit from having Dwarves in their front rank.
But why Floi specifically? Well, Floi has the Loremaster special rule which is particularly nasty against Great Eagles. Why? Because Floi can spend a Will point to pick a model that is within his line of sight (no particular range): he can then negate an Active or Passive special rule (or the special effects of a piece of war gear) for the turn. If run with Balin, The Living Lore can get Will points back on Floi, but even if you skip on Balin for a Dwarf King, Floi can turn off one special rule each turn for 3 turns (potentially more if you ally him with Gandalf from the White Council, Tom Bombadil, or High Elf Stormcallers from Rivendell).
So why does the Loremaster rule matter so much? Gwaihir relies heavily on two special rules: Monstrous Charge and Fly. If Gwaihir isn't near your army when Floi begins his move, Floi can turn off the Fly special rule for the turn to make Gwaihir hobble around with a 3" move that doesn't allow him to hop over lines or anything. Debilitating, right? If Gwaihir has charged someone other than Floi (since this would take away his move), Floi can turn off Monstrous Charge so he is stuck at being a 2 Attack model that doesn't get to knock anyone down. Either way, for three rounds (and possibly more if you build your army to capitalize on it), you can neutralize Gwaihir. All for the low-low price of Floi (and probably an army bonus or two).
Floi is a bit ally-restrictive but he's really useful (not only against Gwaihir, but also against other people). I've avoided talking about Impossible Alliances with Balin - and you can do them if the allied contingent is either really small (e.g. "just Gandalf") or really big (e.g. a ton of tough Minas Tirith/Arnor/Army of Thror guys) so the independent break points aren't an issue. If you want to avoid having an Impossible Alliance and use a strategy that translates easily into either Forces of Good or Forces of Evil lists, I'd recommend . . .
Pick #1: Saruman (or other high-Will/infinite-Will casters)
We've already talked about this, but it bears repeating here: Gwaihir only has 3 Will points and unless Radagast is with him, he's probably not Resistant to Magic. Fortify Spirit could be on Gwaihir, but it's far less likely to be active now that Galadriel, Lady of Light isn't a Hero of Valour. If you find that Radagast AND Galadriel AND Gwaihir are in your opponent's list (which would, admittedly, make Gwaihir incredibly scary - and incredibly resilient against magical attacks), be prepared for pain - but not for a horde. With at least 430pts invested in these three heroes, it's possible for your opponent to get into the 30s at 700pts (you can get 32 models at 800pts with Denethor/Irolas/tons of Warriors of Minas Tirith alongside Gwaihir, Radagast, and Galadriel, LoL) - but low-30s or high-20s can be dealt with in a few different ways (not least of which is having more models/archery).
But if Lady of Light isn't in the list, then a caster is a pretty solid option for dealing with Gwaihir. Ideally, this caster has longer-than-normal range, which begins with a discussion of Saruman (either version) or Sauron. Most casters can cast Immobilize with a 12" range - which is fine if you're going before Gwaihir and can move into range, then out of range - but the better goal is to be able to hit Gwaihir from a distance BEYOND his Fly radius. Saruman (available to most Evil armies from the Armies of the Lord of the Rings book as a convenient ally and to most Good armies period via the White Council) has the ability to cast Immobilize on a 2+ with a reroll of one casting die, which not only makes the spell quite likely to go off (roughly 97% chance of success), but it's also quite likely to go off with a high casting result (75% chance of getting a 4+).
If Gwaihir only has 3 Will points, he's probably only got two resist attempts during the game against a cast like this - so does he even try if the Isengard force is well out of reach? Does he agree to sit tight while the rest of the army runs ahead of him? How long can he do this? And can the rest of the army stand up to the punishment that's coming from the archers that Saruman brought with him (usually in an Isengard force or as an allied contingent if taken in a Forces of Good list)? Gwaihir's got to decide when to use those Will points - and if he needs to cough up some before he gets close to the action, he's more likely to come to a screeching halt (see what I did there?) once he's locked into combat . . . beware doing that around Uruk-Hai or any of the other Forces of Good guys we've talked about so far . . .
Sauron is the other caster with 18" range - and while he's nigh impossible to ally into an army, Barad-Dur is a solid option for dealing with him - you can field Sauron with Black Numenoreans backed by Orcs and supported by Orc Trackers and Warg Riders to get around 30 models at 700pts with the big man taking the lead. While your Orc Trackers rain down arrows on the main contingent, Sauron's job is simple: neutralize Gwaihir. Yes, this strategy won't work too well if Gwaihir is supported by both Radagast and Galadriel, Lady of Light, but you can be sure that Gwaihir wants nothing to do with Sauron buffed or unbuffed by some of the strongest wizards in the game.
But there are other casters you can use too - anyone with infinite Will and a 12" Immobilize (Gandalf, Radagast, and Galadriel - all of which can be allied in easily from the White Council or Lothlorien) or a lot of Will and a 12" Transfix (the Necromancer of Dol Guldur or pick your favorite Ringwraith - all of these guys are at least Heroes of Valour, and so they ally easily with anything). Gwaihir will only have a few turns to get cracking and if he needs to burn Will (and ideally some Might) on the approach, you're in a pretty good place.
Okay, this post has gone on for a while now, but let's look at some lists that are (I think, at least) pretty competitive ways to deal with Gwaihir!
Sample Lists
Our first list begins with Floi Stonehand and his Dwarf King friend as they join forces with the cheapest F4/D6 spearmen in the game: Arvedui, Malbeth, and the host of Arnor!
- Dwarf King with throwing axes [ARMY LEADER]
- 4 Dwarf Warriors with shields
- 2 Dwarf Warriors with Dwarf bows
- 4 Dwarf Rangers with throwing axes
- 1 Dwarf Ranger with bow
- Floi Stonehand
- 6 Dwarf Warriors with shields
- 2 Dwarf Warriors with Dwarf bows
- 2 Dwarf Rangers with bows
- CONVENIENT ALLY - Arnor: Arvedui, Last King of Arnor
- 5 Warriors of Arnor
- 9 Hobbit Archers
- CONVENIENT ALLY - Arnor: Malbeth the Seer
- 11 Warriors of Arnor
- 1 Warrior of Arnor with spear-swapped banner
700 points, 51 models, 4 Dwarf bows hitting on a 4+ AND 3 bows hitting on a 3+ AND 9 shortbows hitting on a 3+ AND 1 throwing axe hitting on a 4+ AND 4 throwing axes hitting on a 3+, 34 D6+ models, no fast models but 2 Might for Heroic March, 7 Might
51 models is quite the horde - and since it's mostly D6-7 Dwarves and D6 Warriors of Arnor (at least some of whom will have a 5+ save from Malbeth), that's a durable army that can easily get 4 dice against Gwaihir. If the archers in Floi's warband keep him from being charged, you stand a good chance of neutralizing Gwaihir and buying time for your Dwarves backed by Arnorians to plow through the enemy. Oh, and we have 16 18-24" ranged weapons alongside 5 throwing axes . . . pretty tough stuff, really.
Our second list showcases the amazing Dain Ironfoot - and I've opted to take him from the Iron Hills with a full complement of Dwarves and an Iron Hills Ballista. With 537 points invested in that, I could have added an Iron Hills Captain and a handful more guys, but I opted instead for a historical alliance with the Army of Thror and picking up a cheaper March hero and some cheaper Dwarves to flesh out our numbers instead:
- Dain Ironfoot, Lord of the Iron Hills on war boar [ARMY LEADER]
- 5 Iron Hills Dwarves
- 4 Iron Hills Dwarves with spears
- 1 Iron Hills Dwarf with spear and banner
- 6 Iron Hills Dwarves with crossbows
- 1 Iron Hills Goat Rider
- Iron Hills Siege Veteran with Iron Hills Ballista
- 3 Siege Crew
- HISTORICAL ALLY - The Army of Thror: Grim Hammer Captain
- 1 Warrior of Erebor with shield
- 6 Warriors of Erebor with shields and spears
- 4 Grim Hammers
700 points, 34 models, 6 crossbows hitting on a 4+ AND 5 throwing axes hitting on a 4+ AND 1 ballista hitting on a 4+ (rerolling 1s), 34 D6+ models, 2 cavalry AND 5 Might for Heroic March, 6 Might
The last list we're going to look at is my go-to Isengard list at 700 points (well, one of them). In it, I've got Saruman, Grima, Thrydan, and Mauhur as my heroes and they're backed up by 30 Uruk-Hai - a nearly 50:50 split between Scouts and Warriors with lots of pikes for a good loose phalanx to protect Saruman, some fast bowmen to support Mauhur, and two killer heroes to jump on whoever Saruman neutralizes (or helping the Uruks chop through troops):
- Saruman on horse [ARMY LEADER]
- 8 Uruk-Hai Warriors with shields
- 7 Uruk-Hai Warriors with pikes
- 1 Uruk-Hai Warrior with pike and banner
- INDEPENDENT: Grima Wormtongue
- Thrydan Wolfsbane on horse
- 5 Uruk-Hai Scouts with shields
- Mauhur
- 10 Uruk-Hai Marauders with Uruk-Hai bows
700 points, 35 models, 10 Uruk-Hai bows hitting on a 4+ AND 1 Sorcerous Blast hitting on a 4+ (rerolling 1 casting die), 8 D6+ models, 2 cavalry AND 11 fast infantry AND 2 Might for Heroic March, 8 Might
Conclusion
Gwaihir's a tough model - and for 150 points, he's well worth taking. But he's also only a 150-point hero and so there are counters to him (but hopefully you've seen in this post that even these counters aren't going to be easy). Next week, we're tackling another big monster for Good: Beorn (and sort of his son as well). The bears are back and in the hands of the right player, dealing with Beorn (and Grimbeorn) can be all but impossible. So what can we do against such reckless hate when it rears its ugly head on the other side of the table? Find out a few tricks next time - until then, happy hobbying!
I've played quite a lot of Gwaihir (as an ally, and in misty mountain heavy lists), and he's a large step down from the previous 2 monsters. His list building restrictions are part of it, as is the base 2 attacks. He's still a great model, especially for 150pts, but he has issues.
ReplyDeleteWhen I use him, the biggest issue is having a cheap caster neutering him for large parts of the game (a support Ringwraith springs to mind). I'd disagree with expensive casters being a counter. If a 190pt Saruman is spending all his time transfixing my 150pt Gwaihir, I'm totally ok with that (especially since I typically ally in 1-2 other eagles). It's even better if your leader is another model, since it takes magic pressure off of them, and onto your tanky bird. An 80 point Ringwraith shutting him down feel a lot worse, even if it's only for 2/3 of the game.
I find the biggest issue with the eagles in general is just getting unlucky on priority rolls and/or heroic move offs. If you spend the majority of the game getting charged by 1 guy, who just shields and 2v2's you, you lose a lot of fights, and waste time. Conversely, warriors of the dead are the best warriors to 1v1. They're annoying to kill, but I wouldn't discount just rending one a turn if you get charged and win the fight. They're incredibly expensive warriors, so even if your 150pt bird is killing 1-2 a turn, it's usually going well in my experience.
Mounted uber heroes just aren't getting into combat mounted (Dain, Azog, Elendil, etc). They're getting hurled by something after a heroic combat. Sometimes it takes time, but eventually you can always find an opening.
The listbuilding is what makes the birds hard to use, since you want decent amounts of might to call heroic moves, and also a banner effect to help them win their fights. A cheap, tanky shieldwall for them to fight around is also good (I've played a Denethor gondor list which was solid). Bifur on Pony is a nice historic addition to an eagle-heavy list for 50pts, and gives you lots of marches and moves. The issue is Thorin's Company doesn't have a (good) banner option.
I've been considering Eagles with a mounted Halbarad, which gives 3 might, and a large banner to assist the Eagles. The problem is you need to take Aragorn, or Arathorn as your Valour hero, which becomes very pricey. Maybe the play is you take Gwaihir, and the Eagles from Radagast's alliance. Then you can get Halbarad, and Arathorn can be your leader, and can sit at the back and just shoot his bow most of the game?
TLDR: Can confirm that cheap casters (Ringwraith, Galadriel, etc) are a pain to fight into with Gwaihir.
If Gwaihir has a wingman or two (see what I did there?), you're right - big heroes are definitely not mounted if/when they engage. Most of the competitive builds I've seen lately don't invest in multiple birds, but having played plenty of games against 5+ Cave Trolls, I would expect that preventing 2-3 Hurls from flying monsters is just not possible.
DeleteCheap casters who have a lot of Will are included in the #1 slot, though someone like Saruman (less so Sauron) is still going to pose an issue for a list that one-dropped Gwaihir. His friends definitely change the equation, though.
The Rangers as an ally are really interesting - if taken from Radagast's Alliance, you're still Convenient Allies, so neither army bonus is in play (which makes Dunedain and dismounted Rangers of the North quite a bit worse). As a result, if you're taking 250-350pts of Eagles, along with 300-350pts for Aragorn and Halbarad, I can see the numbers crunch you'd run into. Arathorn would save you 100pts, but also can't be mounted . . . but you could field just Gwaihir with Arathorn, Halbarad with horse/banner, and 14 Dunedain at 700pts . . . now that has potential . . .